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View Full Version : Freddie's Tech-Day (May 22nd and 23rd)


pbrown
05-18-2010, 08:49 PM
Just getting this posted now. I'm sure you all new about this through Gary's postings. I just want you to know where and when to go this Saturday.

We will be pulling an old 170L6 and replacing it with a nice new 200L6 and C4 combo.

Tasks to do include pulling the old engine and tranny, cleaning and detailing the engine bay, installing the new engine and tranny, and making the car move under it's own power by the end of the weekend. It will be a big job and I hope to get some people here to help.

The address is 2841 NW 74th St, Seattle WA 98117. My pnone number is 206-818-7281 in case you need to call for directions. There is parking in the street.

I will be up early getting things ready. You can be here any time after 8:00 AM.

I hope someone can bring a portable shelter. It looks like it might rain on Saturday.

Please reply to this thread and let us know if you plan to come.

Luva65wagon
05-18-2010, 10:10 PM
...cleaning and detailing the engine bay...

Hopefully Gary could drive the car to a car wash and give it a good pressure wash beforehand.

...I hope someone can bring a portable shelter. It looks like it might rain on Saturday...

Is this going to be an outdoor job?

pbrown
05-18-2010, 11:27 PM
The car will probably be outside unless we figure out how to get a car, engine stand, tranny, hoist and all the people in a 1 car garage and still be able to move around.

MacDee
05-19-2010, 08:58 AM
Hopefully Gary could drive the car to a car wash and give it a good pressure wash beforehand.

Underhood is pretty clean already, at least the easy-to-see part. I'll stop off at a Brown Bear and do what I can with the lower out-of-sight areas before heading south this afternoon.

MacDee
05-20-2010, 12:22 PM
The engine will arrive at Pat's house, probably around 9:00-9:30 am on Saturday depending on traffic and how long it takes to load the engine up at Carter's place.
I'm providing lunch.

Luva65wagon
05-23-2010, 12:10 AM
Just finished cleaning up from a long day helping Gary and Patrick (we were the totality of the members who came) and we did good. I'd guess about 90%, maybe more, is done. Because I took some pictures, I decided to log in an post a few.

Luva65wagon
05-23-2010, 12:11 AM
New one going in... after Gary does a little cleaning first...

68FalconSC
05-23-2010, 12:12 AM
Truly sorry to be missing this. I spent a good part of the day {sat} getting ready to go pull my parts car home from Port Angeles today and had 2 different appointments to look at a couple houses. Both have big 2 car garages.

I'd say you guys did an awesome job. It's too bad there isn't those car washes anymore that have the steam wand. Those steam wands were perfect for cleaning an engine bay, not very "eco" friendly though.
Jon

BillP 98201
05-24-2010, 06:45 AM
Wish I could have been there. Dang work. Anyone want to hire me so I can get weekends off? Great job Roger and Patrick

MacDee
05-26-2010, 12:05 PM
First, I want to thank Pat and Roger for their tremendous effort in helping me turn this life-long dream into reality! Of course, I must also thank Carter Burns, who built the engine (who, by the way, has enough parts left over to build a whole 'nother engine, if anyone is interested...). And others, though not able to be there during the swap, who provided encouragement and support throughout the past couple of years (especially when we had those serious setbacks!) Kenny and Jeff in particular: The tech articles on Kenny's web site were key to my accomplishing the C4 rebuild. Jeff supplied "engine block #3" which was the one we actually ended up using. Modified17 provided "engine block #2". Even though we didn't use that block, his willingness to help us in our most deperate hour was key to our willingness to even continue with the project! (That is the block, by the way, you'll get if you're interested...)

As an update, we did get the engine fired on Sunday. I even managed to back it out into the street and pull back in to let Pat put his Bird back in the garage. The exhaust system hadn't arrived in time to to be installed on the weekend (not that we would have had time anyway) so it really shook some windows while it was running! I went back over to Pat's last night to hook up the choke. We fired it again so Pat could work some magic on the carb and ignition tuning.

The exhaust system arrived, of course, on Monday! My current plan is to bring the system over to Pat's Saturday morning, install it, and then drive the car home. Stop by and have a look if you're in the neighborhood. (Or grab a tool and join me underneath!)

Again, thanks to everyone, even those who just submitted encouraging comments, for helping turn this into reality. Words cannot express my gratitude!

redfalken
05-26-2010, 02:50 PM
Looks awesome! I'll be over Saturday to lend a hand for sure. Let me know what time.

I really wish I would have been in town for the install but had a great time at my parent's 50th wedding anniversary party. They gave me their 1990 Accord LX and I drove it home. 2,200 miles was a long drive home but it's always good to hit the open road...even if it's in a Honda!

pbrown
05-26-2010, 04:38 PM
Welcome back Kenny.

The car needs some tuning before it hits the open road. I was having trouble getting it to idle below 1500 RPM. I was using a vacuum gauge on the carb to try to adjust the carb idle jets. The best I could do was 15lbs vacuum. I think it should be better with such a mind cam. I also could not get the timing set below about 25btdc.

Here are some todos for anyone that is up to it.


Pull the spark plugs and verify TDC. It's possible that the mark on the damper and the indecator are not right.
Pull the valve cover and check the valve adjustment.
Check the firing order.
Get the choke connected to a switched 12v point.
If possible check the carb float adjustment. These things can be knocked out of place in shipping.
Install the exhaust system and weld in an O2 bung. I have an extra that can be used and have a welder.
Set the timing (10 degrees btdc is probably a good start)
I'm not sure the car is actually road ready in its present state. It could probably limp home. I'd hate to see any damage caused to the engine by having the timing too advanced.

Luva65wagon
05-26-2010, 08:48 PM
Couldn't get it below 25 degrees because??? The vacuum advance hit the block? Will they need to pull and rotate it a tooth or two?

I would'a thunk Carter would have done basic setup stuff like this. Gary, do you recall this, whether Carter put a light on it when it was running? Patrick, this may be a really stupid question (but been there, so gotta ask), you're timing light isn't adjustable, is it? You're sure it was at zero?

Sad that I'm all tied up this Memorial Day weekend doing an extreme makeover bath and kitchen remodel edition, or I'd come out and help out again. But Kenny being back, and close, he may get it going.

Oh... and... Whoot, whoot --- ding-ding-ding YOU ARE OUR ONE THOUSAND'th POSTER!

And your grand prize is.... :doh: :doh: :doh:

pbrown
05-26-2010, 08:58 PM
My light is adjustable but it was at zero. Vacuum can never hit the block. It was just running real bad when trying to get it lower. I was wondering if the damper and timing cover are from different engines. I'm no expert on the L6. I know that in the V8 world Ford had three different places that the pointer could go. This is why I'd like someone to double check TDC.

Luva65wagon
05-26-2010, 09:41 PM
There's no mention in the Schjeldahl Performance Handbook of a difference in balancers other than a 3-bolt version and a 4-bolt version. If the timing marks are always in the same location, then there should never be an issue. But yeah, bring #1 to TDC an see if the pointer is at zero on the balancer and both valves are closed. Hopefully the timing chain and all is set right.

Jeff W
05-26-2010, 09:45 PM
1) Why the O2 bung?

2) It the Harmonic Balancer new or re-used from the old engine?

Luva65wagon
05-26-2010, 09:55 PM
Patrick has all that there fancy 'puter stuff to go sniffin' the butts, uh I mean the exhaust, and adjust for maximum hot-rodishness.

The damper was used, single groove version. Bringing a couple over to compare them key groove to timing mark could help determine if the outer ring has spun.

MacDee
05-27-2010, 05:01 AM
First, I wouldn't call the cam "mild". It's a 274-degree duration cam which is only one step down from CI's full-race hydraulic cams (280):

http://www.classicinlines.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CSC-274-HSP-12

I haven't any idea what the vacuum should be, but the CI cam selection tech article states it will be "lower than stock".

The zero on the damper and TDC should be dead-on. Carter was prepared to do an offset key to make sure it was perfect, but when he checked it, he was surprised it was perfect with a straight key.

The damper itself is brand-spanking new. Carter had been insisting I get a high-performance damper, but they are extra-thick, and I didn't have enough room for one. We compromised and I just bought a brand new single-groove stock one. (Of course, that doesn't mean it still couldn't have spun....)

Hmm...

MacDee
05-27-2010, 01:20 PM
I'm planning on being there about 9:00.

See y'all there!

MacDee
06-01-2010, 09:15 AM
Thanks hugely to Kenny and Jeff who came and helped install the exhaust system on Saturday!

Alas, once the system was installed, the car would not start. :( After fooling around with the timing for a while, to no avail, we decided to knock off for the day. Kenny and I came back yesterday (Memorial day) and took another crack at it. After numerous calls to Pat, Jeff and Carter, we opted to replace the coil. At Carter's suggestion, we did an informal spark test on the coil. It seemed really weak. We did the same test on the replacement coil, but it didn't seem any stronger.:confused: We finished putting it together with the new coil anyway, and, lo and behold, it started!! I dunno.

I was able to get the timing down to about 14 btdc and idle speed down to about 1100. A short test drive revealed a couple of other issues which we were able to resolve, and I decided to make a run for it. Kenny agreed to follow me home and then take me back to drive my "regular" car home.

The trip home was, um, anxious. Had a hard time keeping it running at stop lights and managed to stall and re-start three times on the way home. The temp gauge was reading 210 or more as we stopped-and-go'd out of Ballard, but came down to about 195 once we got to a nice long stretch without stop lights.

Now that she's home, I'll have time to think about it some more and try to recover some enthusiasm. (Pretty tired of it all right now...) With the daughter's wedding coming up, I won't have much time anyway. When I finally do have some time, and enthusiasm, I'll go start looking for vacuum leaks. I suspect this is the source of the issues relating to timing and idle speed.

Thank you, thank you, thank you to all who helped bring this project along! Without the help I received from the guys in the Rainier Falcon club, this never would have become a reality. Pat, Roger, Kenny, Jeff, you guys are AWESOME!!

Luva65wagon
06-01-2010, 10:27 PM
Gary,

Sorry to hear you had no luck getting the Falcon to fly. I would have preferred to have helped you rather than doing, or should I say "attempt to do" a bath -and- kitchen remodel in 3 days, which has now gone into day 5 with at least 3 or 4 more days to go... if I'm lucky.

When we get past this weekend (hoping I make it this weekend), I may be able to find an hour or two to give it a look-see. The remodel I'm doing is in Duvall, and as I recall you're up in that neck of the woods.