PDA

View Full Version : Saving Granddad's Falcon


Pages : [1] 2 3

dhbfaster
12-20-2014, 12:59 AM
Finally… My own thread. This one a bit more about the story and later the restoration process-not so technical. My cousin just sent me the picture of the green version attached-so that got me going on the story. My falcon has always, and will always be “Granddad’s Falcon.” Apologies in advance if it’s too long or gets a bit mushy, but I hope you enjoy it anyway. This is the first part of the story.

The Early Days
“Granddad’s Falcon” is a one family falcon- a 1961 fordor, with the 144 straight six and a three speed shift on the fly transmission with bench seats. Not exactly a hot rod, but it was Montecarlo Red with a Corinthian White top. No air conditioning (we lived in El Paso where it’s normally over 100F all summer), no seat belts, and pretty much no other extras except an AM radio. It was built June 23, 1961 and there were 159,761 units produced of this model that year. Base price was $1976. It was purchased new from Kemp Ford in El Paso, Texas by my Grandfather. My Grandfather was a West Pointer, and retired as a Colonel from the U.S. Army in El Paso, Texas after 30 years of service. Even though he was retired, everywhere we went, everyone just called him “Colonel.” I called him “Granddad.” He always had a late model T-Bird, and a couple years before I was born, he bought our falcon because he wanted an economy car to drive to work (after the military) so the T-Bird could stay in the garage and go to the grocery store & out to dinner every now and then.

My Introduction to the Falcon
I really started to get to know the falcon when I was about 9. The falcon was about 11 years old by then and an “old car” for our family. Every Saturday all summer, Granddad would pick me up at my parents house in the falcon and take me down to his house to mow the lawn and work around the house. I had already been mowing my parents yard and making some nice cash $$$. To me, my Grandfathers yard was big- much bigger than my parents yard. I was a business man, so I was ready for a tough negotiation. I got up my courage and suggested $4 was appropriate for such a big yard. My Grandfather said he would give me $5, but I’d have to really work hard to earn the whole $5. I was on top of the world (and very proud of my negotiation skills!) I could go on with story after story, but as you can probably guess, I had some really great grandparents. I ended up working at my grandparents Saturdays half the year well into high school- mostly on the yard, but on other stuff too. He taught me a lot and I ended up being their “favorite” grandson. (I learned later that my brother and all my cousins also thought they were the favorite, but I really was!) He taught me how to change the oil on the falcon and he and my dad explained how (unlike the T-Bird) it was one of the last simple cars you could still work on yourself. I remember I loved the simplicity of the falcon- especially the engine compartment- painted the same color as the body as if the whole car was just dipped in paint- that’s about as simple as it gets. We’d always take the falcon to the hardware store, or if we were going anywhere without my Grandmother- we ALWAYS took the falcon. It was our go-to car, our utility car- it was a working car.

The Lube business Years-Our falcon was a workhorse.
In 1976, my Dad and his brother started a quick lube business before quick lubes were everywhere. They were able to start it with $500 each, (a bank loan,) and…Granddad’s falcon. My Granddad gave the falcon to my Dad and it became their first hard asset in the business. I remember being a bit worried about the abuse the falcon would take being driven full time, but true to it’s purpose, it was a workhorse, so it made sense. They painted it green, and put the logo on the door. It was used as a delivery vehicle for a few years too- they even removed the back seat so they could easily load it with boxes of oil and air filters- and they also used it for marketing. The pictures attached are from a time when they were promoting the oil change business- before people knew anything about quick oil change businesses. That’s my Dad standing next to the falcon. My Dad also had a place in his heart for the falcon. Later the falcon was painted in a yellow theme, and used in TV ads- the point being- take care of your car and it will run forever and take care of you. Of course, eventually the business grew and the falcon retired- usually only to be used in promotions.

My High School Years
I worked for the lube business the summer between my Junior and Senior Year of High School. There were several locations by then. My Dad told me that since I was going to college, I needed to learn what it was like to “make a buck.” I was put to work as a “pit man.” I knew as the bosses son, I would have to work extra hard to win the others respect. I did. My Grandfather and my father already taught me a lot about hard work. The first week in the pit, I came home covered in oil from head to toe and had a few minor burns here and there from the 100F temperatures the cars were driving in before they came in. I loved it. I remember several times that summer we set a new record for cars done in one day. Hard work was the first step to earning respect. The next step was not so much about work-it was after the work was done- I knew I was going to have to go up against some of the local champions for the oily rag popping competitions. This was serious. You take one of those red shop rags- get it nice and oily with a really thin zep oil, twist the rag up a bit and stretch it out nicely, then snap-it…and pop! The game is: you get on one side of the pit, and the other guy gets on the other side. You put your leg on the “curb” that is the edge of the pit. The objective is to “pop” the other guys leg in a painful enough way enough times to get him to remove his leg from the curb before you had to remove yours. Some guys would come in proud and show off their dark welts from the games the day before. I remember only one guy I never beat at least once- the location manager- he was an absolute master at this game. A small guy, but terribly fast on the snap. It was probably good that I didn’t beat him. There was one more right of passage I went through. The drinking age was 18 back in those days, so that meant there was lots of alcohol at parties. I wasn’t that much of a partier, but one Friday night it really got me. The next morning I was sure I had the hangover to end all hangovers. I had to be at work at 7:30am on Saturday morning- our busiest day of the week. Let’s just say it’s a good thing I worked in the pit that day with large plastic trash cans around. It turned out I took a step forward that day- my buddies at work coached me through it, fed me their hangover cure-menudo (Mexican soup made from pig stomach), along with lots of water, and I transitioned from the bosses son to part of the brotherhood. Word spread. I worked often seven days a week as the fill in Pit Man at every location in El Paso that summer. I learned a lot that summer, about cars, about people, and I learned success in the business is all about the process- and the team that runs it. Today, in business with degrees and certificates and 30+ years of experience later and it’s still all about the process- and team that runs it. (Although a little cash doesn’t hurt either.) Anyway, every now and then that summer one of the supervisors would drive by with Granddad’s falcon.

The Falcon’s Retirement
Ultimately, my Dad and his brother sold the business to one of my cousin’s- but my Dad kept the falcon and took it up to Colorado with him to really retire full time. Every now and then he’d drive it, and every now and then he’d fix something on it. He kept it running, but by now the falcon was pretty well worn. By this time, I had a family with three boys. We visited the falcon at least once a year, and it was always great to see my parents too. (Just kidding! I always said hello to my parents before going out to see the falcon.)

Back to El Paso
Meanwhile- the quick lube business was sold again to…to yet another cousin and her husband, whose family still successfully runs the business today and they have quite few locations across Texas and New Mexico. My family (me, my wife and three boys) had moved to Washington to follow my career but we still always visited Colorado and the falcon at least for the holidays. I always wondered what was going to happen to the falcon. Eventually, my Dad’s health took a step for the worse and my parents decided to sell their place in Colorado and move to a retirement community in San Antonio where there would be less to take care of every day. My Dad put the email out…”Don, you’ve got first dibs on the falcon- it’s yours if you want it.” It was a difficult decision, but timing wasn’t good. One of my boys was in college and two were on the way, not to mention I had a fresh pay cut from the recent economic downturn, and worst of all- I also had a BOAT. (Break Out Another Thousand.) Practicality got the best of me so I asked my Dad to see if anyone else wanted to take it. So, my Dad expanded the emails- and luckily, my cousins family at the lube business was willing to take it back to El Paso and I had visions of them restoring the paint job-first class this time, and using it in parades and promotions again. Perfect! I thought… more people will enjoy it, and I can enjoy it when I’m in El Paso every year for the holidays and it won’t cost me any money.

To be continued in the next post...Home for the holidays....notice that sign in the back window???

ew1usnr
12-20-2014, 05:53 AM
Hello, Don.

That was a great write up. I look forward to reading the next chapter!

I like the way the car looked when it had the green paint and yellow "Lube n' Go" business logo. It gave the car a sturdy appearance and showed that it was not being pampered and that it was so reliable that it was being used as an everyday work car.

Does your car have a tinted windshield? In the third photo of the front of the yellow-painted car it looks like there is a tint band along the top of the windshield.

Does your car have a heater?

How did the right front fender get dented? It looks like something heavy was dropped on it from above.

Thanks, Dennis.

4440

dhbfaster
12-20-2014, 08:16 AM
Home for the holidays
My in-laws still live in El Paso so we visit every Christmas. My wife and I are blessed with lots of wonderful family. Christmas at Nana’s house is always a big deal and there’s lots of food involved. It had been a while since I’d seen the falcon. My wife and her Mom went off to the grocery store. I got a phone call. “Dear…, you’re not going to believe this, but I’m sure I saw Granddad’s falcon and it has a for sale sign on it.” “What? …(gulp)…falcon?” “Your Granddad’s falcon was yellow right?” “Yea” “I’m telling you, it’s parked out front of the Lube N Go near the grocery store and they have a for sale sign on it.” I couldn’t imagine. Impossible- I thought. It must be some mistake. So, my son and I drove over to go see it with our own eyes. There it was. It had a for sale sign on it. I just stood there, and although I never understood it before, as a flood of emotion came to an otherwise not that emotional guy, I now understood how a man can get emotionally attached to…a car… I tried to shake it off. A young guy, likely the pit man, came out and said “Hey how’s it goin? You interested in buying the falcon?

The Conversation
Here I was, and a guy just asked me if I wanted to buy what was basically my own falcon back! I said, “Humm….uh, well, yea, I’m thinking about it.” (Yea, right, like I’m going to buy my own grandfathers, and fathers falcon back after it was supposed to be going to falcon heaven?) He said, “It’s really cool, I wish I could afford to buy it.” I sat down in the car- all the memories came back like it was yesterday- it even still “smelled” the same. I told the guy…nicely…”Actually, my Dad and his brother started this company with $500 and THIS FALCON. I worked in the pit for a while too.” “Really? Wow” he said. “How long ago was that?” “Like 30 years ago…” “Uh, wow.” I got back to the in-laws and my wife said, “That was it, that was your Granddad’s falcon wasn’t it?” “Yea, it was.” “What are you going to do?” she said. I said I would think about it. Car restoration is ridiculous after all. The next day she just looked at me and said “I know, you have to take it. Just go get it.” (I love that woman.) A couple emails and a phone call later and the falcon was mine (at no charge) of course. I have absolutely no hard feelings about it with my relatives. In fact I’m glad they had it while they did through the economic downturn. They just didn’t have the history that I did with the falcon. They needed some more warehouse space- practicality won over and after all….”it wasn’t a T-Bird or something like that.” It sure wasn’t. It was Granddad’s falcon- a working car, not a cream puff that sits in the garage all day- and it’s going to be a lot easier to restore than a T-Bird too.

As the fourth generation is now restoring the falcon with me (using some of Granddad’s tools), it won’t be a hot rod, but it will be beautiful again, and it will be garaged now- more of a crème puff than ever, but it will be an occasional driver, still earning it’s keep just like it was always meant to.

dhbfaster
12-20-2014, 11:14 PM
Hi Dennis,
It does have a heater, and it always worked quite well. The corner windows work amazingly well for ac too.
The windshield does have the tint band across the top. The original one did not. This one is fairly new.
My grandfather had a fender bender a long time ago which was responsible for the bondo, and the sort of bend in the hood, then we think something fell off the shelf in the lube n go warehouse and created the dent that's there now. I found another hood and grill here locally. Meanwhile, the falcon is on its way to Spokane, wa tomorrow to get all the paint and body work done. It will be great to have the garage to work on all the other stuff. My remanufactured engine is already due back Monday!

ew1usnr
12-21-2014, 06:50 AM
My remanufactured engine is already due back Monday!

I'm excited for you, Don!

You have a really cool little car and I am very much looking forward to reading about your impressions and experiences when you get it back on the road.

That 144 was designed to be a Volkswagen fighter. I want to hear what what gas mileage you get and about the performance it delivers while driving around town. Take it to the grocery store and see how the bags fit in the trunk. Have your son take it for a drive while you enjoy the ride as a rear-seat passenger. Try out the rear doors for ease of entry and check out the back seat for leg room and roll the rear window up and down.

The car was designed to carry six adults. Get your friends and family together and give it try. Put six people in there and see how the suspension, brakes, and acceleration perform under that load. And have someone take pictures with all six of you inside!!!

You should have a lot of fun with that little car once you get it back together.

4442

dhbfaster
12-23-2014, 07:58 PM
Jason (and Makena our dog) and I had a great trip over to eastern wa Sunday and brought the falcon to Phil for paint and body...a major next step! It's in good hands for sure. Really looking forward to March...

PhilC
12-24-2014, 09:08 AM
It's now parked in a controlled and heated environment. [thumb]

Luva65wagon
12-24-2014, 09:38 AM
Phil - Be sure to post some pics as it progresses!

:sawzall:

PhilC
12-29-2014, 08:28 AM
Will do, time permitting and with Don's approval. ;)

BillP 98201
12-30-2014, 11:38 AM
Hello Don,
Great story! I remember living in Alamogordo NM, and my dad driving our Falcon back and forth between there and ElPaso. Small world. I'm an Air Force brat who's dad loved Falcons and Comets

dhbfaster
12-31-2014, 09:30 AM
Hi Bill, thanks for the feedback! I took many trips to and through Alamogordo and white sands mostly up to the mountains for camping or backpacking with Boy Scouts..almost once a month. Nice towns and beautiful mountains. Quite different from here, but beautiful in its own way. The falcon had quite a few work trips to las cruces and Albuquerque too.

ontheroad68
12-31-2014, 09:02 PM
Paint it Green!!! I love that old Machine Green color, I'm considering painting my car that color (if I paint it).

Enjoyed the story, good luck on the resto!

PhilC
01-09-2015, 08:35 AM
So, I told Don he'd have to do the play by play, it is after all, his baby. However, I just can't resist taking a few moments to add some photos of the paint removal process yesterday.

Jeff selected a rear door to start with and held the nozzle quite a way back to soften the media impact just enough to remove the black and reveal the vintage, hand painted signage. We both just stood there looking at it, amazed at the skill of the sign painter, and even now, how nice it looked.

I hadn't read Don's story in it's entirety. Just a few lines and a quick glance at the pictures before heading off to some other task. I took the time to read it all today, and having lost both my grandpa and my dad, can really appreciate what it means to Don and his family.

That said, I thought it appropriate to post a few pics of the car as it sits this morning, stripped back to bare metal, and as a fond farewell, the last moments of the vintage signage.

What a great story Don. ;)

PhilC
01-09-2015, 08:38 AM
A few more pics. Now the real work begins. :D

dhbfaster
01-10-2015, 02:47 PM
Anyone know know why the square holes in my bumper are so much bigger than the square shank of the bumper bolts? I'm wondering if the bolts are not correct.
Or if I buy new bolts...wondering if they will be bigger? I had a heck of a time getting some of these off.

Also....looking for the following parts if anyone can help.

Passenger side front fender

Rear view mirror

Right rear door bottom window channel (that holds the window)

Flywheel...I went to my tranny place and they said They don't turn them anymore they just buy new ones. I haven't seen any new ones for a 61 online...any ideas please let me know.

PhilC
01-10-2015, 03:27 PM
Got a lead on some parts Don. ;)

Luva65wagon
01-12-2015, 09:03 AM
Anyone know know why the square holes in my bumper are so much bigger than the square shank of the bumper bolts? I'm wondering if the bolts are not correct.
Or if I buy new bolts...wondering if they will be bigger? I had a heck of a time getting some of these off.

Also....looking...

Rear view mirror

Flywheel...I went to my tranny place and they said They don't turn them anymore they just buy new ones. I haven't seen any new ones for a 61 online...any ideas please let me know.

Don, I looked online to order new bolts for my pickup[ and they all wanted upward of $30 for a set. I bought 6, with nuts, from Tacoma Screw for less than $10. I have to polish the stainless caps, but that's easy. I can't tell from the picture what size yours are, but they sell them up to 9/16" thread diameter. I think the Falcons used 7/16" thread, but I got 1/2" for my pickup and they are still a little sloppy.

I was digging in my parts bins this weekend and found this:

4504 4505

Yours if you need it. You can buy the mirror re-popped.

If you are talking "machining the flywheel surface" (assuming this is a clutch car), then 'buying new' is a joke. May be true for a newer car, or a Mustang of any year, but not a Falcon 6 cyl. Find a good local auto machine shop. They'll do it with the correct step height.

dhbfaster
01-12-2015, 10:34 PM
You are the man Roger[yay][BOW]

That mirror base is perfect. Same PN. My mirror is actually fine, I just need the base...I'll take it.

Bolts...just measured and these appear to be 7/16th. Tacoma Screw here I come-I'll try for bigger ones...and a funny thing, I dropped off the bumpers for plating today the guy told me he thought I could get them at McLendon's hardware...said I just needed to polish the caps. I'll be getting into all the polishing in a few weeks...I have more than a few other bolts to try to match up too.

Flywheel...that's what I figured. I'll call around- there's probably someone I drive by every day on the way to work that can do it.

Luva65wagon
01-13-2015, 08:43 AM
...I just need the base...I'll take it.

I'll grab it and keep it with me so no matter where I am, there it is.

dhbfaster
01-25-2015, 10:54 PM
Anyone know what this stuff is and where to get more of it or a suitable substitute? (My car was in the sun and heat a lot...and this stuff literally turns to powder when you touch it.)
This is the padding behind (under) the panel directly under the rear window.

Also, anyone know where to get the fiberglass like stuff that is behind the front kick panels?

Luva65wagon
01-25-2015, 11:24 PM
Don, That's called Jute Insulation. I'm sure if you google it you'll find it in rolls.

dhbfaster
01-25-2015, 11:44 PM
As usual....thanks Roger. [BOW] That got me going in the right direction.
Macs sells it pre-cut...$25. And in case anyone else wants to know what this area is called...."Package tray"

[URL="http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mercury_late/rear-window-package-tray-jute-insulation-pre-cut-jute-fiber-ford-all-sedans-and-hardtops.html"]

but it does look like I can buy something suitable cheaper by the roll out there.

dhbfaster
01-28-2015, 11:20 PM
So...my "While I'm at it" list of stuff to buy is getting quite long...I'm trying to save one of those $18 orders that with shipping turns into $35 :WHATTHE: because there's nothing else to order from that vendor on the list right now...

So...I ceramic coated the manifold and it's a beautiful tungsten gray now.
The old manifold bolts- and those spider-like lock washers around them. They are a nice rusty-red, but functionally seem just fine.

First of all the finish of the new ones is "natural" so what exactly does that mean? Will they look just like the old ones by next year?

If I clean up the old ones..they look pretty nice (see the pic for old vs new)- maybe even nicer than the new ones- sort of an antique look. Any kind of rust preventative that will work on these at all?

(fyi, I spent lunch Tuesday at Tacoma Screw and bought quite a few new bolts and screws...but they didn't seem to have these.)

ew1usnr
01-29-2015, 03:26 AM
Macs sells it pre-cut...$25. And in case anyone else wants to know what this area is called...."Package tray".

Hello, Don.

I bought one of the pre-cut package tray insulation pieces and installed it on my my car:
4548

It prevents the package tray from being loose and rattling on top of the metal below it.

Thanks, Dennis.

Luva65wagon
01-29-2015, 09:48 AM
Don, Have used this stuff (brush-on version) with very good results:

http://www.eastwood.com/factory-gray-hi-temp-coating.html

Kind'a pricey, but held up very well.

dhbfaster
02-21-2015, 11:05 PM
Expecting sun and low-er humidity tomorrow and the engine is about ready to be painted!:banana:
Should I have any concerns using Teflon tape for the water fittings?
And what about for the water temp and oil temp sensor fittings?
I read something about sensors needing good (ground) contact with the block (advising against using Teflon tape.)
Any thoughts?

Luva65wagon
02-22-2015, 03:43 PM
Don, I use either Loctite or Permatex pipe thread sealant. Not Teflon tape.

dhbfaster
02-22-2015, 06:03 PM
Well, here it is, Engine painted. Not bad for a first timer. [yay]
I decided to paint the other parts for the front of the engine separately, and decided to go ahead and paint over the freeze plugs. I think it looks pretty good...still wet and very shiny in this picture however.
Roger, I used teflon tape on the water fittings. Should i change it to permatex or Loctite tread sealant? No biggie if I need to, it looks like I'm going to have to touch up around the valve cover anyway. If I do need to however, I'll go loosen it a turn tonight before it gets to final cure.

Luva65wagon
02-22-2015, 07:19 PM
Technically Teflon tape is not a sealant. It keeps the threads from galling at best and may slow leakage down. But generally it is to allow mechanical sealing of tapered pipe threads. It will not lock anything in place. Loctite-type sealants lubricate the threads and have a sealing property 2nd to none.

dhbfaster
02-22-2015, 11:00 PM
Gotcha. Just put the order in for some permatex. :D

Luva65wagon
02-23-2015, 04:26 PM
That'll do ya.

Motor looks nice. You may find after bolting stuff on that your masking left bare metal exposed. You may want to hand-paint those areas once things get installed. But looks really nice. I'm fond of black motors these days.

PhilC
02-25-2015, 06:39 PM
Though I'd share some pics of the process Don's car is undergoing. These are examples of the way I remove dents and prep for epoxy.

This happens to be the driver's fender and I chose two dents on the crown near the door edge to show off.

The first is a shot of two deep dents from the backside of the fender, out of sequence, but the one with the steel rule shows the depth before I started. I roughed them out with a door skin dolly and hammer (has a nice high crown) and the next one is after working them a bit more. At this point, all my reference was from the exterior using a block with 80gr to show highs/lows.

I continued working the lows, slowly bringing them up and running a well worn body file over the surface to highlight what I was doing. Rather than take pictures after each step, I was just repeating the same one over and over until I was satisfied, I just took a few shots after I was finished.

More next post. ;)

PhilC
02-25-2015, 06:45 PM
The reference shots show the size of the small depressions remaining, about 2mm or so diameter and maybe a mil or so deep.

For gee whiz, I went ahead and lightly finished it off so there were virtually no depressions left.

So, the obvious question will be how long did this take? A little over an hour from start to metal finished condition. Never happen in a collision shop, those were maybe half hour dents from paint removal, bang 'em out, apply filler and ship to paint shop for primer. Good thing I'm not doing collision work anymore. :D

dhbfaster
03-02-2015, 11:13 PM
Man...it's quiet out there on the forum lately.
So, here are a few pics so you know Phil and I aren't sitting on our butts.
Well....at least Phil isn't. :BEER:
Seriously though, it's hard to believe those are 50+ year old parts in those pics.
Meanwhile, I'm working on the parts list and ordering tons of stuff....HOLY COW the cost of all those seals and little parts!!! :bicker:
Also working on painting lots of miscellaneous small parts, and starting to work on the trim.

Luva65wagon
03-03-2015, 09:07 AM
We're all just watching you work for a change. [yay]

I wish. It's been non-Falcon all the time of late. Sold my '67 pickup last week to another member and that has put me into an unexpected rush to finish-up the '66 before Spring and the need for the truck grows. Or before the May Swap Meet. Try and I might to avoid WIAI projects, they keep happening! :doh: Gene is heading out with a pile of metal to Steve's to powder coat probably today.

I think the others will slowly come out of hibernation and start working on their cars again.

The work I'm seeing done on your car is impeccable. I wish I had that much space to spread things out and work! Do yourself a favor, though, while it's all apart, buy some Dynamat sheets and put it everywhere you can. I did this to my wagon and Ranchero and it makes the joy of driving these cars all that. Not cheap stuff, but well worth it.

dhbfaster
03-04-2015, 02:29 PM
Whew...my big parts orders are all in :eek:
Do they have an emocon for a guy throwing money in the air?? or one for a guy sick with "While I'm at it" disease? It's a good thing I have been married for 29 years...my wife still loves me after all this (I think). :D
My big parts orders are all in...
I have some Dynamat "like" stuff Roger...it was a bit cheaper then Dynamat...but I hope it will get the job done "ok". If not, I'll live with it. I think it has to be better than spraying tar on the floor again.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQao-o6H8gWu1e-0ajt0j4COKSwEMcil__IjiKEIR_fBs8Twaca

SmithKid
03-04-2015, 05:42 PM
Don, I think we all feel like we've been in that boat! I know I do, but am happy with the result! At least, I seem to keep doing it. This pic isn't exactly like throwing money in the air but......

dhbfaster
03-04-2015, 10:22 PM
Yep, and although I wouldn't exactly call myself "set for life" I'm fortunate enough to be able to do this without taking any food off the table or kids out of college, etc...
AND, the more I think about all of your cars the more I truly understand what all of you have put into your cars and I know it's an elite group to know a falcon this well- or any car for that matter. The only way in is really time AND money AND love for the car...in some combination. No way you can even do it with money alone in my opinion, but on the other hand sometimes part of it can be done better with money, and definitely faster. My problem is I'm kind of an "all in" kind of guy.

My Dad will be here June 5 for my youngest son's HS graduation and I am really motivated now- it sure will be fun for him to see it. I don't know when the next chance will be and he's at that age he should have a few more years, but you never know. It will be a miracle if it's drivable by then, but sure would be nice. I'll be pretty surprised if it doesn't bring a tear to his eye either way.

I'm having a lot of fun too.

Meanwhile, speaking of knowing when you're over your head (and would end up taking 4 more years for DIY)....check out these pics Phil sent of my rear quarter...all those dents....then nicely hammered out...(it amazes me)...then with the stuff on top. I think he did the epoxy coat today of the body today...looking for some pics soon!
:shift:

SmithKid
03-04-2015, 11:09 PM
Looks like Phil is doing a great job for you Don. The body work on my car was in the form of numerous cancer spots that needed to be cut out. Very few dents. The guy I selected to do the repair/paint took WAY too long. But it is on the road and I'm really enjoying it now. Hang in there!

dhbfaster
03-05-2015, 11:29 PM
Piece by piece things are progressing...another fender and the hood primed today (as well as all the prep work.)
Picked up the last batch of sand blasting...metal heater parts, the horns, and also some small powder coated parts- generator bracket, and part of the horns.
The horns were in really bad shape- after I'm done with them they will look beautiful, and hopefully they will still work too!

dhbfaster
03-08-2015, 09:00 PM
Nice weather today....got the rattle can rattling...had so many little parts out in the yard it looked like a garage sale. :BEER: Painted the horns, coil, visor parts, rear view mirror, and touched up some engine parts.

Got into the trim work today too...successfully got three dents out and polished over...and successfully added three new dents! :doh:

Meanwhile, Phil laid epoxy on the body late last week...

ew1usnr
03-09-2015, 02:36 AM
Hello, Don.

Wow! Your car is going to be gorgeous.

I saw this 1960 Falcon transmission cross member listed on e-bay. Does your transmission mount have one forward-projecting cantilever as is shown in this picture? Is this cross member assembly missing a cantilever piece, or is this how it is supposed to look?

4702

Or does your transmission mount have a double forward-projecting cantilever as is shown in this photo of a 1963 - 1965 Falcon T-10 manual transmission cross member?
4703

Diagram:
4704

Thanks, Dennis.

dhbfaster
03-09-2015, 10:45 AM
Mine is similar to the first picture...except the spring steel piece that goes to the transmission seems to be longer than that one in the picture. (AND, mine is now nicely restored...):shift:

Luva65wagon
03-09-2015, 11:20 AM
All the original Falcon cars until about '66 (don't quote me) used the cantilever springs. The first image (the ebay part) doesn't have the correct spring. It looks like a piece of hot-rolled flat steel. The spring for it is supposed to be similar to the V8 part you pictured, but without the extra support "S" piece. I think the 6'r uses only two leafs, and not 3, but this is only from what I've personally seen and that isn't exhaustive or conclusive. All my cars have had 6'rs with double leaf supports.

And I have too many of these parts piling up at home - not sure how or why I came upon them - but every time I go and open a bin, there's a greasy tranny mount.

They all take the same rubber bits, but mounting bolts may differ.

I recently finally learned enough about these and had [what I thought to be] an epiphany about why my wagon, since day one of me owning it (3 different transmissions, half-dozen differnt clutches, new driveline, new rear-end, new shocks, crank/bearing swap, new motor mounts) chatters when I try to back up against a load. Drives me crazy! So I bought all new tranny mount parts and rebuilt it like new. No change at all. This alone has prompted me to put the thing up-for-sale because I can't allow myself to invest in the change it to a V8 or newer 6. I've pretty much concluded the car is simply too heavy for a 8.5" clutch. I'd have to change engines to a later 200 to get around that and keep it a 6.

OK... Back to your regularly scheduled program... :)

dhbfaster
03-11-2015, 10:20 PM
Got a quote for time to install the headliner...8 hrs to install the headliner and wind lace? Does that sound right to you guys?:doh:

BadBird
03-11-2015, 11:05 PM
It all depends on what the installer is going to do. Are the rear window and windshield still in the car. Is he going to remove/reinstall those. If those are not in the car now, then I would say 8 hours for a professional is quite a bit more than needed.

After I did mine myself (a bit difficult the first time) I found a friend who had his Chevy Nova done for $145 and it was a great job. But he didn't have to remove glass.

More info needed to make a good response. But, check around.

Luva65wagon
03-12-2015, 08:13 AM
8 hours for a DIY'er maybe, but not for a professional and with the glass out as yours is. Or maybe if he was making it from scratch too.

But it should take about 20 minutes to insert the bows and get them into place. Maybe another 20 to glue the rear section into the back, then another 20 for the front (we've spent an hour so far). The sides and the windless another hour, maybe. A little steaming and heating to take out the wrinkles... sounds like $145-$200 to me as well.

dhbfaster
03-12-2015, 08:23 AM
Right...as you can see the car has the windows out already, and someone else would put them back in. The headliner is made for the falcon- one of the standard ones that Jake sells from original falcon interiors.

Luva65wagon
03-12-2015, 10:00 AM
I saw on an episode of some TV show recently where a guy was installing the headliner in a Chev Wagon and was lamenting that it took him 3 days to get it in and all the wrinkles out. Show car though and custom all the way. So would not use this as a comparison, but this might be the mind-set of this guy.

Jeff W
03-12-2015, 02:47 PM
This is from my Build Thread on the Wagon:

"It took us about five hours including prep, looking for missing parts, lunch and breaks for fresh air and to check up on Brian's engine install (two houses away).

No reservations, just go for it. A large heated garage would have cut the time down to three hours. A Ranchero would take about 15 minutes. I don't know who started the "hire a professional" rumor... probably the professionals"

More here:
http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1470&page=3


Also the wind lace was a fast job, maybe 20 minutes including figuring out how it goes on. Double that since you have 4 doors.

doghows
03-12-2015, 09:36 PM
WAY out of control! My upholstery guy custom made my headliner and installed it in about five hours. He had my old one for a pattern but still!?!
You have a pre-made ready to install one, no glass and no interior. Should be about a two hour job max if the guy knows what he is doing.
Jeff get over there and handle that for him![thumb]

dhbfaster
03-14-2015, 12:47 PM
Yea...some decisions to make. :NERVOUS:
Remember the car is in Spokane, I have to tow it back home at some point which I had planned to do on the $50 open trailer rental. I had certainly hoped to do that with the headliner and the front and rear windows installed....otherwise I'll need an enclosed trailer because I don't think any plastic taped in those big holes will stay for six hours on i90. Feeling a bit stuck...Tech day at Phil's place?
Unfortunately I'm about to be out on work or vacation for like the next 7 weekends.:doh:

PhilC
03-15-2015, 07:43 AM
Since I don't do upholstery, I rely on referrals from people I respect. This shop was one of two I was referred to, the other being the most expensive shop in town which I didn't even bother asking for a quote.


I've agreed to do Don's upholstery work myself. Sure hope it goes smoothly and I haven't bit off more than I can chew. Time will tell.

Jeff W
03-15-2015, 01:41 PM
Phil, you are a talented and patient guy. You will be awesome!

dhbfaster
03-15-2015, 03:13 PM
Agree! And....after reading your thread about the seats again Jeff, it's given me more confidence on finishing the seats myself too. [BOW]
Just dropped a bunch of stuff off with Phil. This falcon is going to be awesome.:rocker:

dhbfaster
03-15-2015, 03:33 PM
Kenny...found the perfect accessory...even the wheels match!

http://m.ebay.com/itm/like/161091667796?lpid=82&item=161091667796&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466

redfalken
03-15-2015, 03:47 PM
That's probably about all my 6-cyclinder and stock suspension could handle! They do look good together!

ew1usnr
03-15-2015, 04:49 PM
Hello, Don.

Does your ThriftfPower 144 have the three-bladed fan?

4709

Dennis.

dhbfaster
03-15-2015, 09:37 PM
Mine is the four blade fan...attached is a nice picture of it from the front with the radiator out. Today....it looks totally different since Steve powder coated it. Looks better than new. :BIRTHDAY:

Luva65wagon
03-16-2015, 08:25 AM
Hello, Don.

Does your ThriftfPower 144 have the three-bladed fan?

4709

Dennis.

Dennis - not sure what motor that is... but it's not a 144. Log and carb is on the driver side as is the generator. I've not seen a 3-blade fan on any Falcon myself. The motor sort of reminds me of my old 223 6 in my '56 F100.

Jeff W
03-16-2015, 12:31 PM
Agree! And....after reading your thread about the seats again Jeff, it's given me more confidence on finishing the seats myself too. [BOW]
Just dropped a bunch of stuff off with Phil. This falcon is going to be awesome.:rocker:

Don, I really enjoyed trimming the foam and recovering the seats.

It is one of the fun jobs that you can do in the comfort of the living room and not make a mess. It's more of a craft project and extremely rewarding. I know your kids are older than mine, but I had them sitting on the floor, pulling, stretching, holding and generally getting in the way. It was a blast!

ew1usnr
03-16-2015, 06:15 PM
Dennis - not sure what motor that is... but it's not a 144. Log and carb is on the driver side as is the generator. I've not seen a 3-blade fan on any Falcon myself. The motor sort of reminds me of my old 223 6 in my '56 F100.

Hello, Roger.

You are correct. I looked at pictures for cooling systems and all that they showed for Falcons from 1960 forward were four-bladed fans. A guy at work had told me that his father's Falcon had a three-bladed fan. The fan must have come from another car.

Thanks, Dennis.

4714

dhbfaster
03-21-2015, 01:53 PM
Well, I'm out of the country for a couple weeks and away from the garage...not sure what I'm going to do with myself not being able to scrape rust, shake a can, or buff some trim....:confused:
Planning to get the dual m/c brake line parts list figured out...and hoping to see lots of pics from Phil :rocker:

dhbfaster
03-22-2015, 01:13 PM
I seem to be missing the little plug that goes into the log close to and under the carburetor-the hole for it is in the pic below. I'm pretty sure it didn't come back from the engine rebuild guys which means it's history. Anyone have an extra one of these lying around that they don't need? or know where I can get one?

Thanks in advance!

Jeff W
03-22-2015, 01:26 PM
Isn't that for your vacuum wipers? If not, it is probably just a standard NPT plug you can get at Home Depot.

dhbfaster
03-29-2015, 08:03 AM
On this falcon it may not be for the vacuum wipers, that line goes to the carb, but I will definitely check Home Depot.

Meanwhile looks like the replacement hood I bought a while back also has problems...so Phil found me a better replacement hood.

dhbfaster
03-29-2015, 08:16 AM
So I have become more cultured today...went to a museum of modern art.
I'm told modern art is supposed to inspire you and get your mind thinking.
So here's this enormous "painting" in the pic below...as soon as I saw it I was thinking...wow, this is montecarlo red! (Rangoon red!) same color as the falcon.
Maybe this artist was inspired by ford.

Then the next one...(blue with a white stripe)...all I could think was uh..Shelby..mustang, blue with a white stripe.

Steve...you gotta love this onetime last pic...my youngest son Colin said..."dad this looks just like the stuff you pulled out of the falcon....it would be better if he powder coated it"

dhbfaster
03-29-2015, 08:19 AM
Since it's an iPhone...it takes me a couple more posts...here is shelby

dhbfaster
03-29-2015, 08:22 AM
And the last one..."stuff pulled from falcon"

I wonder how much $$ these are worth? Seems a lot easier to do than the work it takes to restore a car.

PhilC
04-04-2015, 08:09 AM
A few pics. ;)

The tape on the decklid hinge came off one of the front aprons, compared to the 54yr old OE paint, it's really close.

Fluorescent lighting doesn't show the real color.

doghows
04-04-2015, 08:25 AM
Steve...you gotta love this onetime last pic...my youngest son Colin said..."dad this looks just like the stuff you pulled out of the falcon....it would be better if he powder coated it"

You have a very smart boy!![thumb]

dhbfaster
04-07-2015, 08:46 PM
Anyone have an extra tail light assembly for a 61 in good shape?
One of mine is mutilated and I don't see any on eBay or craigslist.

doghows
04-08-2015, 06:43 AM
What do you mean by assembly? The whole bucket, lens , and trim ring? I have a few parts that I gathered doing the delivery and they are hard to find except the lens those are re popped. No one makes the bucket or trim rings like they do for the 63.

Luva65wagon
04-08-2015, 08:23 AM
Another place to look is in the National Falcon newsletter - parts for sale section.

dhbfaster
04-08-2015, 10:28 AM
It's just a bucket and a lens that screws into it...the trim ring is part of the bucket itself. My lens is fine...so I just need the bucket. I'll post a pic tonight.

dhbfaster
04-08-2015, 08:43 PM
Tail light pics...of course, the yellow paint is not required. I also have new gaskets, and the lens. Just need this bucket housing part. Thanks in advance! [BOW]

dhbfaster
04-09-2015, 10:10 PM
Back to the carb...trying to find the carb kit. So, dumb question of the week, how can I confirm which carb I have?
According to Phil Barbers rules page"

Notes on the Holley Carburetor 1904, 1908, and 1909 models

*The 1904 was used on 1960 Falcons and can be recognized by its glass float bowl (some may be zinc vs. glass). *All 1960 & 1961 Falcons had manual chokes.

*In 1961 the Falcon got the 1908 model

*The 1909 was used on 1962 144/170 falcons. (it is physically tiny compared to the others)


So...according to this my 61 should have a 1908 carb, not a 1904 as I thought previously.
However, looking at pics on google, it looks like a 1904, not a 1908.
Shouldn't it say that on the carb somewhere?
Below are pics of the only two numbers I can find:
Series is AOD and Type is OAD
Then on the bowl, there is a number that I believe is "6R 1833" That's the only identification I see. :WHATTHE:
Appreciate your help. :confused:

doghows
04-10-2015, 11:52 AM
Don sorry running my *** off and forgot to look. But I'm sure I have a bucket in better shape than that. I WILL check tonight. [thumb]

doghows
04-10-2015, 04:50 PM
Ok I have two. Both are in great shape as far as no dent dings or bends.
Number one is a NOS unit but I'm not sure I want to give that one up.
Number two is in great shape just not as clean and shiny. I could run it through the glass bead cabinet to clean it up. That one is free if you need it. We may have to talk if you are after the new one!

doghows
04-10-2015, 04:52 PM
Back of number one.

Plus on a side note anyone using an iPhone or iPad you can only post one pic at a time due to the I product listing them all as jpeg. Thus the site recognizes it as the same picture instead of multiple pics. So here we go.

doghows
04-10-2015, 04:53 PM
Front of number two.

doghows
04-10-2015, 04:53 PM
Back of number two.

Luva65wagon
04-10-2015, 09:26 PM
The Tomco kit has the 1904 and 1908 bits. I can't tell which you have from those images, but it doesn't matter since the kit covers both. Here's one place selling that kit.

http://www.carburetion.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?part=KT-5105

Good luck.

dhbfaster
04-10-2015, 09:51 PM
Steve...that NOS is a beauty [BOW] but you are a tease man!! My account is running low, but I hope we can work something out. :D

Roger...thanks for the help on the carb kit. :shift:

My buddy has all my door handles and window cranks...replating here was so high $$$$ for these, I decided to buy some new Ford licensed handles instead...at $60 each. Got them and they were horrible! I guarantee the original plating was much better and these were NOT Ford quality. So I returned those and I sent all my old ones to a buddy of mine to get done and the price is right. He sent me a picture-attached...he said they are beautiful and should be true OEM quality. We'll see if it works out...if so, maybe I can help out some other club members. [thumb]

dhbfaster
04-30-2015, 01:38 PM
Whew...Back from too much world travel and crazy work stuff, so: Updates...

Found a tail lamp on ebay that (I haven't received yet, but it) looks really nice... Lots of other small stuff done too and last missing parts found.

Phil says the car will be painted by the end of the week (tomorrow). He will still have some work after that...but:

Plan is to pick it up on the weekend of May 16th. I want to bring it back in a covered trailer rather than the open uhaul (I prefer not to mess it up before it gets home!)...I found a friend that says I can borrow his 3/4 ton truck with electric brake controller, but I need to find an enclosed car hauler trailer. I did find a rental, but if anyone has a covered trailer available for that weekend...it would be great if I could work something out $$ win-win to keep it in the family.

After I get it home...next is heater, carpet, dash, then I will probably try to get the seats in (my wife will be happy for me to get them out of the house.) I have a bunch of family coming for my sons HS graduation weekend of June 6....including my Dad- it will be great for him to see the car getting this close.

After that...brake lines, dual master, and then the engine & tranny needs to go back in- I hope sometime in June. Roger, it sounds like you are going to be too busy...but I could sure use some help from someone that's done this before...and I'm not too sure if it's too early to plan the date or not- but I'm throwing it out there for a weekend in June if a mentor is available.

Then at some point comes startup (hopefully not blow up-it would be great to have a mentor for that too)....my goal is to make it to the mini...we'll see!

If there are any recommendations about the order of reassembly...all advice appreciated. [BOW] Thanks in advance!

Luva65wagon
04-30-2015, 02:34 PM
Exciting times Don. We'll keep the door open for you as much as I can. Would love to participate in that. I am really hoping beyond hope I will be back to a normal me by then. Or as I told Lila, the abnormal normal me.

There are specific things you should install before others. Generally speaking you don't want things in the way while you are putting something else in. Headliner, for sure, before any glass. Floor, firewall panels, carpet, before heater. Steering column before brakes. Stuff like that. Will be easier to install brake and fuel lines before the motor and tranny, etc.

Just keep us posted as you have been and we'll play it by ear. Would love to see a fresh Falcon at the mini too!

doghows
04-30-2015, 02:34 PM
Don set a date up for a tech day! I'm sure there are several of us who will come, myself included. It would be a privilege to help you put your car back together. After all you helped with my delivery on my tech days so what comes around goes around. Just say when and where. :shift:[yay]:rocker:

dhbfaster
04-30-2015, 04:52 PM
Roger...sounds good. Heater goes after carpet...had that one backwards- good to know. I did plan to do brake lines before engine...but not fuel line- so I'll do fuel line before engine too. What about wire harness?
Brake pedals, headliner, steering column, windows, emblems...Phil's got those. Also plan to put in shocks and other suspension stuff with my son before it leaves his place. :D

Steve...I'll see how June plays out...and may post up for a tech day. Right now, I have so many part all over..."somewhat organized" but no room to walk in my garage! I need to get the bigger stuff back into the car...

dhbfaster
05-04-2015, 04:19 PM
Bumper bolts... I bought some of the bolts from Tacoma Screw with the stainless cap on them...plan to polish them. Just curious...Does anyone know if the original bumper bolts had chrome plated caps? or were they also polished stainless?

Luva65wagon
05-04-2015, 04:24 PM
Always use polished stainless caps on bumpers. You could maybe find some stainless carriage bolts and polish those up (if such a thing is available), but factory was polished stainless capped steel bolts.

dhbfaster
05-04-2015, 07:20 PM
Pics just in from Phil. All I can say is WOW....
Roof is done, and this is base only- no clear yet.
Reflections look pretty nice to me.

dhbfaster
05-04-2015, 10:08 PM
and...with clear-

doghows
05-04-2015, 10:33 PM
Holy crap Don!! That's even before color sand and buff. You are going to be afraid to drive it. That is BEAUTIFUL

Luva65wagon
05-05-2015, 08:11 AM
Don, was red the original color? So it's going to be red with a white roof? That is going to be a very sweet car.

I'd start planning a trip to the nationals some day - it's going to be a winner!

dhbfaster
05-05-2015, 08:16 AM
Yes...the original color, Montecarlo Red with a Corinthian White roof. :BEER:
I've got a long way to go before nationals....hope I can figure out how to get the seats done this weekend and the next weekend get it back without a scratch...:NERVOUS:

Luva65wagon
05-05-2015, 08:58 AM
Ah yes, the first scratch. That should happen on day-one just to get it over with.

:WHATTHE:

doghows
05-05-2015, 09:02 AM
Do yourself a favor and just scratch it somewhere and getting it over with. Bottom of the rocker or some thing. I scratched mine at the paint shop before I even loaded it, my painter thought I was nuts. :D

dhbfaster
05-05-2015, 09:17 AM
Yea, but Steve.................you are nuts. :ROTFLMAO:

dhbfaster
05-05-2015, 11:11 AM
That's ok, I'm a little nuts too...it takes one to know one- just ask my wife!:D

doghows
05-05-2015, 11:22 AM
If you can't bring yourself to do it I'll be glad to help. :sawzall:

PhilC
05-06-2015, 05:55 AM
A few of what I call the "reveal" after masking removed. Not color sanding this one, it's not necessary and I don't have time before it goes home next weekend. It will be de-nibbed and buffed. :)

doghows
05-06-2015, 06:53 AM
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the pictures. This one doesn't even need the color sand. Beautiful job Phil. I'm sure Don is going to be smiling for months!

Luva65wagon
05-06-2015, 09:57 AM
Exciting times! Would love to see a front shot with the cleaned up engine compartment.

So, just because I'm OCD (if that wasn't already obvious), are you going to repaint the red inside the trunk too? Is there anything in there exposed to the elements?

dhbfaster
05-06-2015, 01:28 PM
You mean a shot like this? :D
The other black parts- belly bar, suspension, etc have been powdercoated black (by either Steve or me), I get to paint the steering arms myself after I get it back, Phil painted the steering box in "as-cast" with a black plate on top...which is beautiful, and the bottom of the car is black (done by me.) Still some details to work out on a couple parts in the picture...but I think it's going to look pretty sweet. The shock towers are powdercoated black..
The inside of the trunk is also going to be painted by Phil - I will put the gas tank in before it goes home and nothing will then be exposed there, and Phil is going to redo the sound coating in the trunk so it looks somewhat original.
ok...no more pictures for a while, if you want to see it you've got to get over to help me get the engine back in. :rocker:

Luva65wagon
05-06-2015, 02:34 PM
Actually I was thinking post all things painted red shot. All the post body-shot red images are from the rear. But that's fine; I can wait to see it in person. "Real soon now" as they say. [thumb]

dhbfaster
05-06-2015, 09:33 PM
Ohhhhhh. I don't even want to see those pics yet...gotta see the real thing. Phil, no more pics!

dhbfaster
05-10-2015, 06:31 PM
These bottle caps sure cleaned up nice...stainless is amazing stuff. :rocker:

BadBird
05-11-2015, 07:02 PM
Now I see why you want the trailer with the rock guard. WOW this is looking beautiful. Hope you saw the private message about my trailer. If that doesn't work, let me know and I will see what I can do. Fantastic car and love the color. Larry

dhbfaster
05-15-2015, 10:56 PM
I finally got a chance to take some better pics of some of my freshly plated handles...these were done by a buddy of mine- very nice. I returned the "new Ford licensed" handles I bought before because they looked horrible. They would never actually be acceptable on a new car today or back in 61. Now I have the opposite problem...I'm not going to want to open the door without a cloth diaper in my hand...:WHATTHE:

dhbfaster
05-18-2015, 03:17 PM
Got one piece totally done before running out of hog rings.:doh::doh:
The other pieces are each about 50% done, but 80% figured out.
I think it looks really nice...nicer than I expected. The pic below is the rear bottom bench.
It took a while to get everything figured out, but i ended up using all new padding. Jeff...a big craft project is accurate...emphasis on the word "big."!
It's a good thing I didng to the swap meet.

Jeff W
05-18-2015, 05:08 PM
That looks nice and tight. Good work.

redfalken
05-18-2015, 09:51 PM
These bottle caps sure cleaned up nice...stainless is amazing stuff. :rocker:

Just saw this and remembered that I had a template to spray paint the FORD letters in the wheel covers. I used self-etching paint and it holds up pretty well. You can get the template from my website.

http://www.redfalken.com/pages/fordhubs.html

Everything's really looking awesome! Can't wait to see the results of all your hard work and patience some day!

Luva65wagon
05-19-2015, 08:10 AM
This is gonna be one awesome car when done. Just be sure to keep posting reminders of when you are planning to put the engine in. I juggle things, like time, precariously on the thin wire these days, but I want to be there for that.

dhbfaster
05-20-2015, 10:51 PM
Kenny...thanks! I was wondering about the best way to paint those. I think 61 letters were white. Lower priority at the moment though.

Roger...thanks, gotta get the car back first, then get through my sons graduation...then I will be politely bugging you for a date.


Larry, speaking of getting my car back...I need to talk to you about your trailer. Did you get my PM? Please pm, email or call me. I don't seem to have your number.

Seats...got the rear back rest done. Others still in progress. Very busy week! And gone for the long weekend. Heater...ready for reassembly. Thanks for everyone's support! :shift:

dhbfaster
05-20-2015, 11:15 PM
While I'm at it...here's a pic of my "upholstery" shop BEFORE I started all the work...and also a pic of the finished rear seat. (Anyone need some extra white stuffing?? I have a feeling I'll have extra. Let's just say the price was right on that stuff.)

Also, a pic of some of the tools...notice the hog ring pliers are "Chick Tools" brand...I thought this came from Eastwood. These work very very well.

Last but not least, I have a question about the tail-pipe and muffler. The muffler needs to be replaced, and I figure...yea, might as well do a new pipe-otherwise it would be the last rusty thing on the car- that anyone can find anyway. The Midas guy told me he didn't need the car to bend the pipe. Can I really trust that? Can they really bend a new pipe correctly without the car there? That would sure be nice.

Luva65wagon
05-21-2015, 08:49 AM
Don,

I think they may have "plans" for most anything. That said I would not do it. I would use the existing rusty stuff to get you to a good custom muffler shop (~Midas ~not) and have them do a nice custom install. Maybe in stainless so it never rusts again. You don't really pay that much more for awesomeness. This way you can have it on the rack and look at where they are going to run it - maybe compare it to the old stuff - and make decisions to get it the way you want it the first time.

dhbfaster
05-21-2015, 11:28 AM
I have a little time on this, but since we're on the subject- Any recommendations on a good muffler shop down my way?
I don't think I've bought a muffler for 30 years or so...

Luva65wagon
05-21-2015, 02:27 PM
Don- I'm sure there is one. I know a lot of people go to some guy out in Snohomish for his quality of work. But that is not Federal Way. Most places will do good work if you watch them and act like you could be the one doing it if only you had the tools. Because of the restoration quality, most good shops will feel it is important to do a good job because of the exposure they "might" get - either good or bad, depending how it goes.

dhbfaster
05-26-2015, 10:16 PM
Looking for a carb spacer for the 1961 to go with the Holly 1904 carb. Attached is a pic of mine. It's so corroded at the water line that there's actually a hole (where shouldn't be). I'm not sure if the white stuff is corrosion, or some else's bubble gum fix, but if I can't find a new one I may need to find someone to weld it.
Anybody know where I might find one?
I have found the version for 1963 and later at Falcon Enterprises and at C&G Ford Parts...and tried all of the following with no luck: Macs, Rock Auto, Mike's carb parts, Melvins, Summit, eBay, and Dennis Carpenter. Of course...I might have missed it. Appreciate any ideas from the advisory board! [BOW]

By the way, I found this manual online for the 1904. (It says, it's for GMC, but I assume it's pretty close.)
http://c1518311.r11.cf2.rackcdn.com/holley_1904_manual.pdf

Thanks as always!

redfalken
05-26-2015, 11:25 PM
Wasn't there a powdercoated one at the swap meet? I know there were several variations but it looked very similar. This one looked like someone had carved a ditch on one side with a Dremel. It was to draw vacuum to the carb.

I don't know where it ended up??

Luva65wagon
05-27-2015, 07:38 AM
I had one like that at the swap meet that I had Steve powder coat. I didn't inventory everything as it got repacked - but I'll have a look to see if it sold or not tonight. If I have it, you can have it Don.

Assuming for a second I don't have it, I think you could clean it up really good, sand-blast it, and use JB Weld to smooth out the imperfections and then paint of powder it. Holes going into the water line might be iffy, but most of the corrosion under where hoses are will fill nicely with JB Weld.

doghows
05-27-2015, 08:17 AM
I think I have a couple of those at home. Let me check tonight and see. I'll post pics and you can tell me if its what you need.
Did you ever get your twilight buckets??

dhbfaster
05-27-2015, 10:12 PM
Here are a few more pics of it cleaned up. Check out the hole in that thing! It seems like it would be possible to plug it (weld it) if I can't find a better one.
Notice it does NOT have that little cut that looks like it was done with a small router. The one for the 63 and later does have that. Here's a link to what that looks like: http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/1963-1965-6-CYLINDER-CARBURETOR-SPACERS-44p619.htm

Steve, I did find a really nice used tail light on eBay for a reasonable price. :BEER:

doghows
05-27-2015, 10:22 PM
I'll grab my spacer in the am. I saw it tonight but forgot to take a pic. I think it's the same one. Glad you found a bucket after seeing you car I was ready to sell mine for that fine ride. Stay tuned. Pics in the am.

doghows
05-28-2015, 08:00 AM
Here is what I've got Don. The one I think you need is in need of repair but I think I can fix it real quick with my welder. If it is the right one let me know and I'll get her fixed up.

Luva65wagon
05-28-2015, 08:13 AM
I had something come up last night and didn't get home early enough to go digging through bins from the swap meet, but the one I had looks just like that - and it needs no repair. So before you go off trying to weld either of those thing (and Don, your's is in WAY better shape) let me take a look for mine first. I will look tonight for sure!

I know the one I had I personally put the little worm trail in, which is used to provide vacuum for the automatic choke (it provides a suction needed to pull the hot air off the manifold through the choke tube into the choke housing). It doesn't hurt to have it if you have a manual choke carb.

dhbfaster
05-28-2015, 10:31 PM
Steve, WOW, much appreciated...but I thought mine was bad! :WHATTHE:
I think Roger is right...better to fix mine if I can't find a better one. Even if I need to just mail it to one of you guys for some weld help.

Roger, so having that grove makes no difference when you have the manual choke? Would that also mean that the later model version would work?
Look forward to what you find.

btw, a friend of mine (for 20 years) from work is working on the carb for me. She is a mechanical engineer...but a real hand's on type whose husband has been a mechanic for many years and she used to do all his carb rebuild jobs for him at home. She said it was something about her little hands...

I have so many people helping me on this....

My borrowed truck is packed, and my son and I are off to Phil's neck of the woods tomorrow after work after picking up Larry's trailer. We'll spend the night in Spokane tomorrow night and then I'm looking forward to the big reveal by Phil Saturday morning and hope to be home before dark.

This is a major milestone and I really appreciate everyone's help. there aren't too many more parts to be restored at this point-literally just a few...mostly just reassembly now...which will be lots of little things, but definitely a major milestone this week:3g:[BOW]

Luva65wagon
05-29-2015, 10:40 AM
Don, Here is the one I have with some measurements as well. It seems only to have an extra threaded boss to maybe bolt something to. The bore seems to measure right at 1 3/8 and the distance between upper and lower bolt spacing is 2.700".

The slot will be a blind slot with a flat gasket on it - with nowhere to go. The later versions with the slot (factory made) are larger and the gasket has a hole to feel the vacuum up into the carb. The Autolite 1100 base, which is the one you see on-line for sale, is probably a 1.5" bore or more. Much bigger. I didn't measure one, nor did I have any gaskets to fit this adapter plate to compare the sizes exactly.

The gaskets for yours should be in the kit your friend gets to rebuild the carb, or in the full gasket kit from the motor.

BadBird
05-29-2015, 06:27 PM
Well, they are on their way to Spokane to pick up Grandad's Falcon. Don and his son just hooked up my trailer and headed out. Hope they have a safe and fun trip. Anxious to see the car when they get more pics. Larry

dhbfaster
06-01-2015, 07:59 AM
Made it back safe and sound. It was windy and the he front of the truck was covered in bugs (black), but thanks to Larrys trailer and rock screen (also a great bug screen), not one but or scratch on the falcon.

dhbfaster
06-01-2015, 02:06 PM
Roger, back to the spacer....I verified those measurements. Yours looks to be the same other than it has that extra threaded boss. Since that grove doesn't matter, it looks like yours is my best option. 2nd option would be to just weld the one I have to plug the hole, but yours seems to be in much better shape. What will it take to talk you out of that one?

doghows
06-01-2015, 02:13 PM
Back to the spacer hell, let's see the car!![yay]

Luva65wagon
06-01-2015, 04:11 PM
What will it take to talk you out of that one?

Say please?

:D

dhbfaster
06-01-2015, 09:31 PM
Roger, PLEASE! and THANK YOU!
Steve, OK OK OK...we got out of there late and I was worried about getting home with out a scratch (sorry Steve...not yet), but blah blah blah pics attached.

Then I get home only to find out my mac updated and my version of iPhoto doesn't work any more...anyway, I THINK attached will be pics of the new Granddad's Falcon!

Of course there are 10,000 little things left to do...but it's easy to start seeing what it's going to look like. The engine compartment is beautiful too...especially with the powder coated belly bar Steve did, and I can't wait to get the engine in there. No pics of that yet, and this is my sons HS graduation week...I probably won't be able to get to the garage until Sunday or so.

doghows
06-01-2015, 09:35 PM
She's going to be a beaut Don. It will be a pleasure and honor to help when you're ready for it. I promise to leave :sawzall: at home.

Luva65wagon
06-02-2015, 07:54 AM
Don, OK, since you said please. I probably have your address somewhere, but if you could PM it to me again I'll throw that in the mail to you - stat. Wish I would have remembered it today. :doh:

I am pretty impressed with how much is already on the car. Who did all the glass and door handles, etc.?

dhbfaster
06-02-2015, 09:35 PM
Thanks Roger!
Phil did the glass, rebuilt the doors, and the installed door handles.:D (Left me the rear locks :( ) Actually he took care of everything inside of the doors, and rebuilt the doors...and there was quite a bit to it. Rusted channels that had to be replaced, etc. Some parts he bought where we bought the fender, and I think some he had, some I bought. There was some other nice work on the door trim too...more later. Relatives visiting!

Jeff W
06-02-2015, 11:08 PM
Having those details done by Phil was a great idea. You would be surprised how long and finicky that stuff is. That really set you up to get it done in time for the mini. It is looking just super and I am proud of you.

dhbfaster
06-07-2015, 12:00 AM
Thanks Jeff...and I would NOT be surprised how finicky that stuff is. It seems like everything has been finicky. :doh:
I got a chance to get it out in the sun today...here's a better picture.
My friend also finished the carb...I hope it works as good as it looks. :3g:

PhilC
06-08-2015, 05:01 PM
Car looks nice sitting in YOUR driveway Don. [thumb]

Luva65wagon
06-09-2015, 08:27 AM
Don - that carb looks nice. Good to see one of those not all warped to heck.

Hopefully the adapter I sent arrived already. Would hate to see that go missing in the USPS black hole.

dhbfaster
06-09-2015, 01:11 PM
The adapter showed up in yesterday's mail Roger - Big thanks - [thumb]

Almost all the family is gone this week and weekend- looks like a short honey-do list and then... a falcon weekend for me. That should mean at least one full day. [yay]

dhbfaster
06-09-2015, 10:29 PM
Started to reassemble the heater tonight. Bought the heater seal kit with all the little foam seals...but no adhesive? Any recommendation as to what kind of adhesive to use?

Ok, one more carb pic just for fun. :D

Luva65wagon
06-09-2015, 10:33 PM
3M black weatherstrip adhesive. You'll use it other places too.

Carb looks pristine inside. Very nice.

SmithKid
06-10-2015, 11:20 AM
A slightly different way.... I used another 3M product: the same spray adhesive that I used on my carpet underlay. Got it at Freddies.

PhilC
06-11-2015, 09:27 AM
A slightly different way.... I used another 3M product: the same spray adhesive that I used on my carpet underlay. Got it at Freddies.
What I used when I rebuilt mine and what I'd use to do again. Would have to go to the shop for the exact product number. I recommend it for the door panel moisture shields too, much better than the more commonly used strip caulk which functions rather poorly as an adhesive IMO.

Luva65wagon
06-11-2015, 09:46 AM
All well and good, but keep in mind you have far greater potential for over-spray using the spray adhesive. Be careful with it!

And if you doing small parts the squeeze tube 3M adhesive (in black) can be applied in a small-tight location. The function is identical to spray adhesive as well as something like Wellwood contact cement, which is also an option.

All have their benefits, of course.

Strip-caulk was used on water shields to (technically) allow the shield to be pulled back without ruining the shield. Doesn't always work, but you'll want it to. I find old strip caulk on cars/trucks that has dried to stone, but the black 3M stuff I use now I'll have to wait 50 years to see what it looks like then. [thumb]

PhilC
06-12-2015, 08:02 AM
Can be Roger. The spray adhesive I use (3M 8088) has an adjustable width fan I find easy to control, but maybe I just have that part down. :D

Not to be contrary, but Ford did not use strip caulk for the moisture shields, they used a continuous bead adhesive material they called "cement" - Ford p/n M-2G17-A. For parts that penetrated the moisture seal (door release mechanism, regulator, armrest screws, etc.) they specified a sealant (very similar to strip caulk) - Ford p/n M-5397-B. This sealer was heavy bodied to fill the large cavities vs attaching the shield. You can find this info in the 60 - 63 shop manual on pg 12-23, section 2, para 5. I believe both were dispensed from a type of caulking gun.

If you find an intact original door you'll see what I'm referring to and can tell the difference between the "cement" used by the factory for retaining the moisture shield and the caulking used on the other parts.

Though strip caulk is somewhat similar, and commonly used, there are, IMO, better products. In my experience, the 3M spray adhesive is much more forgiving should you need to remove the moisture shield in the future and far less permanent than 3M 8001/8008 weatherstrip glue.

My 2 pennies FWIW. ;)

dhbfaster
06-12-2015, 08:29 AM
So, interesting enough, I originally figured that the spray adhesive is what was used, but I didn't want to be spraying anything near the car...and since I have been working mostly between 8:30pm and 10pm this week and I don't that have room to lay things out on a big piece of cardboard...that means I didn't want to be spraying anything in the garage at all. :D

So, I jumped on Rogers advice and bought the weatherstrip adhesive the same day at lunch (Autozone) and I am finding it easy to use as far as adhesives go.

The heater is almost done...it seems best to glue a few pieces every night. (There are a lot of those little foam pieces!) Meanwhile, I have completely de-rusted, painted, or powdercoated all the parts of the heater and vents inside and out except the fan assembly which was fine. I'm still not happy with my 2nd (rattle can) try on the doors...but I've decided they'll do for now. It seems I'm short on the clips...I only have five of them for some reason and need (I think) 10 - the one spot I broke on the housing before Jeff thoughtfully and proactively gave me advice on how to take them off without breaking! It's a good thing he did, because I didn't break any more after that- thanks Jeff!

For the door shield...are you guys talking about the plastic sheet that goes on the inside-of-the-car side of the doors which gets hidden by the interior panels? So my first question on that is on the plastic...it seems like the original stuff was somewhat stiff (maybe just "old" stiff?") Any reason I can just go to home depot and use some heavy plastic sheet?

Meanwhile, I think after the heater is done, I'm going to start at the back of the car and work forward this weekend. A question on the door and truck lock covers. (btw Phil, the only one I polished up must have been the one for the trunk...I must have just forgotten to do the ones for the doors.) Anyway, my question- If I just buff these up, will they hold the shine pretty well? or are these plated and is it possible to replate these since the moving cover is attached? I hope my question makes sense.

Thanks all....[BOW]

Luva65wagon
06-12-2015, 09:11 AM
Hey, no problem Phil. I guess I was more talking what might be stuff you can use today - or I have used. Always willing to learner myself.

Don, I've used heavy mil plastic with good results. You want to peel it away if ever it's necessary, so it Phil has a recommended product, it's his masterpiece so defer to his recommendation. I use 3M 08578 strip caulk for this, but its because I may not know of something better and easily available.

I think most lock caps are stainless and hold a shine for a long time.

dhbfaster
06-12-2015, 11:10 AM
It seems like the 3M stuff is pretty expensive, and I assume the Ford stuff about the same- AND I have to go find it, order or get to a store. ...by default I'm just thinking the other way on this one...any reason I can't just use the typical household bathroom or exterior window caulking? I don't see why that wouldn't work fine and I already have a bunch of that in my garage...or is there somethiing suitable I can get at Home Depot when I buy the plastic? (and if I ever need to go back in...I'll still have tubes in my garage and probably plastic left over too.). [BOW]

PhilC
06-13-2015, 07:33 AM
It seems like the 3M stuff is pretty expensive, and I assume the Ford stuff about the same- AND I have to go find it, order or get to a store. ...by default I'm just thinking the other way on this one...any reason I can't just use the typical household bathroom or exterior window caulking? I don't see why that wouldn't work fine and I already have a bunch of that in my garage...or is there somethiing suitable I can get at Home Depot when I buy the plastic? (and if I ever need to go back in...I'll still have tubes in my garage and probably plastic left over too.).
Home Depot has the 3M Super 77 (essentially the same product I use) in a 16.75oz spray can for $9.99, check your local store when you get the plastic sheeting. That would be my first choice vs a household type caulking, even though it would probably work. In planning for the eventuality of getting back in the door, broken window, worn out regulator, etc. you'd want to use a permanently non-hardening, non-silicone type caulk, anything else would be, more or less, [B]really permanent and difficult to remove (especially silicone based caulking) so you could attach a new moisture shield. ;)

The Ford stuff is non-existent, long since out of production, you'd likely never find any.

dhbfaster
06-13-2015, 06:44 PM
Phil, you would use 3m super 77 spray for the door shields? Seems messy.
I'm probably going to run down to wesco next week to buy some clips...might they have the right stuff there? (Or something "rope" like?)

On the outside locks (including the one for the trunk), are there supposed to be pads or seals that go behind those or do they go directly onto the paint? :NERVOUS:

Finished the heater and a quite a few other little things...three steps Forward and only a couple backwards today...[thumb]

dhbfaster
06-13-2015, 10:22 PM
A couple pics of the heater...;)
Meanwhile...the 6 heater clips I need are $2.50 each!! :mad:
Today...I already dropped $40 at Harbor freight for little stuff and then another $40 at Orilieys, and I have a falconparts.com list with 6 items on it now.
Well, my wife has been gone all week and I have eaten nothing but leftovers...maybe I can break even.

Roger...looks like that carb part isn't going to fit. The two main studs on mine are bigger, and the hole for the pin is also a different size. :doh:

Anyone know who sells the rubber boots on the back of the front turn signals?

PhilC
06-14-2015, 07:51 AM
Phil, you would use 3m super 77 spray for the door shields? Seems messy.
I use the "pro" version (3M8088) all the time, works well, sticks well, can remove easily later without destroying the moisture shield. I don't have a problem spraying it on. If worried about overspray, tape some newsprint along the outside edges or use a piece of cardboard as a blocker and set the nozzle at the narrowest setting.

It's the only product I ever use for moisture shields whether vintage or modern vehicle. ;)

Luva65wagon
06-16-2015, 04:03 PM
Roger...looks like that carb part isn't going to fit. The two main studs on mine are bigger, and the hole for the pin is also a different size. :doh:

Missed this Don. That's a bummer. Studs can probably be smaller without an issue - or tapped to a larger size. I assume yours maybe had 3/8" studs and mine used 5/16"? The pin on yours is bigger or smaller threads? Apart from these things was the rest OK? Flange sizes and bore? Center to Center spacing on the log and on the carb? I'm pretty sure if they are the other issues are not hard to address. You can't hurt anything by trying.

dhbfaster
06-16-2015, 11:02 PM
Ok, my rookie find it question of the day:
In the pic below...

Item 1 is a hook with rubber on the hook area used in several different places including to hold the wires on the tail lights.

Item 2 is for the grille. (All heavily corroded and broken). I think i have found more modern replacements at autofastco.net but shipping is $20 (a lot for just one item imho) and it would be nice to have the Origional style if available.

Item 3 and 4. Are for the grill and headlights. I swear I used to see these everwhhere, but now i can't find these anywhere.

Any help to point me in the right place or if someone has a box of extras lying around would be most appreciated![BOW]

Jeff W
06-16-2015, 11:57 PM
I'm sure Wesco has at least the #3 and #4. There is several Wesco in the area including Tacoma.

I think they are called "J-Clips" or "J-nuts"

http://www.wescopbe.com/stores.htm

dhbfaster
06-17-2015, 02:31 AM
.I was at Wesco at lunch yesterday. They can order the new version of item 2 by the box of 50 ($24) and the others...nope. I was surprised but they didn't have them available. They had "speed nuts" that look similar, but not u-clips.

Woke up so did a little more searching of your suggested terms Jeff...it looks like Orilieys might have them ...u nuts, and also...check out this place: http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Nuts_U_s/115.htm
Really good prices and seems comprehensive.

So..any thoughts on how to search for those hooks?

PhilC
06-17-2015, 07:36 AM
Check this source Don - http://www.amkproducts.com/

View the catalog .pdf, go to pg 143 and look at the rubber coated J clip. I think this might be the one you need, don't know of any other source for them. They also have some hard to find hardware, like the 5/16 - 24 bolts and J clips I used on your car.

Clipsandfasteners is where I get hardware my local jobber doesn't stock. I always try my jobber first because his prices are the same as the online source but no shipping charges. ;)

redfalken
06-18-2015, 06:28 PM
I've bought a few things from Restoration Specialties before. They have a lot of oddball automotive fasteners. Some not cheap but if you need them, what ya gonna do...

Here's some j-clips:

http://stores.restorationspecialties.com/speed-nuts-u-j-machine-thread/

dhbfaster
06-25-2015, 10:21 PM
Thanks Kenny...

Meanwhile...it seeks like it's been long days at work before I ger home every day, BUT trying to get SOMETHING on right every day...here's rodays small accomplishment!

(Look familiar Roger?)

Luva65wagon
06-29-2015, 09:47 PM
Looks good Don. Did you get that solenoid from me? Been out of town myself the past week, so just getting caught up.

dhbfaster
07-05-2015, 11:57 PM
Whew...kind of quiet on the forum lately.
Yep, that's the solenoid you gave me Roger.
Out of town enjoying a break this weekend. BUT, Phil came over for some touch ups last weekend and it does look great. Pic attached...
It seems like I've got several key pieces waiting on small parts to come in.
Hopefully things will start to move faster this week.
That said...hopefully I'll be running before the rainy season hits...:WHATTHE: mini 2016 here I come.

Luva65wagon
07-06-2015, 08:15 AM
Whew...kind of quiet on the forum lately.


I was on vacation. :ROTFLMAO:

dhbfaster
07-11-2015, 09:37 PM
You were on vacation Roger and so was I.
Tons of little things got done today but lots of little barriers too.
I got a set of new gromets for the headlight wires...I'm having a heck of a time getting something in there to bend those little tabs on the back. Anyone have a trick for this?

Vikingblu
07-20-2015, 02:35 AM
You were on vacation Roger and so was I.
Tons of little things got done today but lots of little barriers too.
I got a set of new gromets for the headlight wires...I'm having a heck of a time getting something in there to bend those little tabs on the back. Anyone have a trick for this?

Ive always used two tiny screwdrivers. Hold the connector/wires between your fingers. With your other hand, Push the tab down, then push the terminal out with the other using your thumb. Almost need three hands. Itsa bugar.

Jeff W
07-20-2015, 10:15 AM
You were on vacation Roger and so was I.
Tons of little things got done today but lots of little barriers too.
I got a set of new gromets for the headlight wires...I'm having a heck of a time getting something in there to bend those little tabs on the back. Anyone have a trick for this?

I just checked mine - they are loose - not loose enough to come out of the holes, but almost. I don't think I bent my tabs over when I put new ones in. I also recall that they were not "tabs" so much as rounded bumps that I assumed were just a loose pressure fit. It's been awhile, sorry.

dhbfaster
07-20-2015, 10:01 PM
Thanks Jeff. I wondered about that, but Decided they would definitely fall out if I didn't bend the tabs at all.
I was able to get a small box wrench in there today and bend all the tabs good enough so they won't fall out, but they are still pretty loose. I was thinking I might tape them down (temporarily) and put a dab of adhesive or silicone on the back tomorrow just to keep them from rattling around.

Jeff W
07-21-2015, 10:53 PM
Here is a quest for you. Find some original rubber inserts like these. I found these on a Ranchero at the Lynnwood Pull a Part.

Luva65wagon
07-22-2015, 08:09 AM
Now that I see the part I used my smallest pair of channel lock pliers - I think they call them ignition pliers because they are so small. Worked great after protecting the ends with tape so they don't nibble into the part.

SmithKid
07-22-2015, 11:01 AM
So...... if someone finds the grommets like Jeff pictured, I want some too. Maybe share an order?

Jeff W
07-22-2015, 11:55 AM
So...... if someone finds the grommets like Jeff pictured, I want some too. Maybe share an order?

I have not seen them reproduced... Sounds like I better stick close to my car at the regional:NERVOUS:

ew1usnr
07-22-2015, 02:26 PM
So...... if someone finds the grommets like Jeff pictured, I want some too. Maybe share an order?

How do you push the two-terminal plug through the rubber boot?

Is the boot cut on one side so that it folds open? :confused:

Jeff W
07-22-2015, 03:36 PM
How do you push the two-terminal plug through the rubber boot?

Is the boot cut on one side so that it folds open? :confused:

Exactly - there is a split on the back side. I rotated one around and snapped a picture. I tried to remove but the smaller neck that goes in the hole is starting to crack.

dhbfaster
07-22-2015, 10:40 PM
Jeff, when I first saw that it reminded me of something medical! Let's just say it was not a comfortable situation for the person I saw that on.
Yea, it's a pretty simple non elegant wire harness routing...but it is what it is and it's all Origional Falcon. Love it..a huge hole with a grommet.

Roger, that's exactly what i had in mind. I'll have to keep my eye out for a pair of those!

Meanwhile, last night I put a big blob of "Goop" adhesive behind the tabs while I had the front taped to the surface and the effect is better than I expected. It's pretty solid today. Definitely much "more gooder."

Pic attached...a bit fuzzy. But you get the idea.

ew1usnr
07-25-2015, 06:07 PM
Hello, Don.

I read about this and was struck by the coincidence. Since you have the 144 engine, You might find this interesting. Look how similar the numbers are:

The 1950 Studebaker Champion had a 169.6 in³ flathead six that produced 85 hp @ 4000 rpm and 138 lbs torque @ 2400 rpm. The 2-door car weighed 2,695 lbs and claimed 29 mpg.
5055

The 1960 Falcon 144 in³ ThriftPower overhead valve six produced 84 hp @ 4200 rpm and 134 lbs torque @ 2000 rpm (figures from Wikipedia). The 2-door car weighed 2,375 lbs and claimed 30 mpg.

Those numbers seem so similar that it makes me wonder if Ford used the the Studebaker as a goal post while designing the Falcon. The Falcon had a 320 lb weight advantage over the Studebaker, but to achieve that Ford had to design a new thin-walled overhead valve engine and use unit-body construction. The Studebaker was using a flathead and body-on-frame construction.

dhbfaster
07-29-2015, 09:14 AM
That's very interesting Dennis. Automotive is definitely a game of constantly trying to one-up the competition on their specs. Still happening today.

All....I'm in need of a battery tray bracket. The one that bolts UNDER the tray and bolts down to the fender. Anyone happen to have one of these in their junk box? (I THINK 1960-1962 is the same...maybe 1963.)

I've thrown almost nothing out...but the old battery tray was so rusted out, after I got the new battery tray and compared it, I tossed the old one. MISTAKE - the new one doens't come with the bracket on the underside (I can't believe I missed that.) I can buy a new bracket for $18 plus shipping at Dennis Carpenter...but if any of you have one saved for just such an occasion...I would certainly appreciate it.

I also don't seem to have the rear license plate bracket that also holds the license plate light. Roger...you were going to check your junk boxes...? OR if anyone else happens to have one...I would really appreciate it!

Luva65wagon
07-29-2015, 09:30 AM
Roger...you were going to check your junk boxes...? OR if anyone else happens to have one...I would really appreciate it!

Don, I will be home tonight and I know where they... were. Hopefully they are still there. I'll try and look up what they are supposed to look like so I can see if what I have is the same thing.

I swapped from an early battery tray style to the later style on my Ranchero, but I don't think I saved any battery tray parts, but I will look. I am a hoarder of things that can be reused, but not seeing it laying around (in my head).

dhbfaster
07-29-2015, 08:46 PM
Here is what the battery tray "brace" should look like:http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_falcon_mercury_comet/battery-tray-brace-falcon.html
or see attached. :confused:

I can't seem to find a pic or illustration of the license plate bracket/ lamp holder that i still need. :doh:

Wiper assembly installation...where the inside wiper arm goes through the car body and attaches to the chrome piece with the nut on the outside of the body just behind the hood (hopefully you can understand what I mean) does the little gasket go on the inside of the car? or on the outside of the car under the chrome piece? I found the old one was inside the car...and there was nothing under the chrome piece between that and my new paint job- so that's how I installed the new one...but that's not intuitive...anyway, is it correct? it goes on the inside?:confused:

As always...big thanks in advance. [BOW]

Jeff W
07-29-2015, 09:01 PM
I put my gaskets on the underside of the pivot (inside the car) before pushing it through the cowl hole, then the chrome cover and the nut.

I remember the nut was very soft metal and easy to distort with a wrench. Don't over-tighten. Not holding much anyway.

I think I also put a tiny bit of the 3M rope calk under the chrome bezel... my thought was to save and cushion the paint.

Two man job or use a shoelace to pull pivot up through the hole and get that nut and bezel on.

Luva65wagon
07-29-2015, 09:37 PM
Here are the license lights I had. Looking at FalconParts.com this is what they say it is:

http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/1960-1963-LICENSE-PLATE-LAMP-ASSEMBLIES-95p303.htm

I think if you take these two I have and combine them, it's pretty close.

Yours if you want to try it.

dhbfaster
07-31-2015, 07:07 AM
Thanks Roger! I already have the light...and it's nicely restored now. I just need the bracket that holds the light and the license plate. If you can bring it when we finally get to putting the engine in that would be great.

Jeff...that's what I did. Thanks for the confirmation. Getting that all oriented inside the car...tweeted my neck a bit!

dhbfaster
08-01-2015, 10:01 PM
Well...only one thing I got done today...I was going through my parts bins...and finally ran into a nicely powder coated battery tray bracket. :doh::BEER::doh::BEER:

dhbfaster
08-03-2015, 08:19 AM
Roger...just want to let you know, I got the fuel sending unit installed...your trick to put a little adhesive on the gasket to hold it in place did it for me. That was all the difference in the world...[BOW]:D Thanks as always.

Other than that...after searching for new nuts and painting some old but good bolts...the battery tray is now nicely installed.

Unfortunately (from a falcon work standpoint) the rest of the weekend was mostly spent with visiting relatives:), and on a leaky sink drain and my wife's "prep for wet season" list for the house that took one trip to Ace and one trip to Home Depot...:mad:

Luva65wagon
08-03-2015, 08:46 AM
Don,

I know we all probably wish there was nothing but Falcon-time when we get into a project. But as much as we try... other parts of life just keep getting in the way. What are yo gonna do? You gotta make money and you gotta pay attention to the family. But at the same time you'd think they would understand the importance!

:rain:

I'll bring the light bits I have when we get to that point and hopefully you can use it. Glad the sender is in and sealed up!

dhbfaster
08-03-2015, 11:21 PM
Granddads falcon will have to wait yet another weekend..:bicker:.I was asked if I want to go on an all expense paid salmon fishing trip with our biggest customer and a few other guests. They fly us in their turbo prop float plane from Vancouver up to their lodge on Stuart island, BC. My boss went on the trip once and said all you have to do is fish (with a guide) and eat. He said the scenery was incredible and bald eagles were everywhere. Well, somebody has to do go...the falcon will understand. ;:)

SmithKid
08-04-2015, 12:38 PM
Don, have you noticed the resemblance between you & I? Maybe I could go in your place to allow you to stay home and work on the Falcon? ;)

dhbfaster
08-05-2015, 02:51 PM
Gene, I think that's a great idea! [yay]
Since your offer, I have been going back and forth with my wife over the idea, but ultimately (as usual) she won out because she said the fishing license is already in my name, and she said I'd be crazy to be responsible for you potentially going to jail. I think the odds are low, but I suppose she's right. After all, you are a bit better looking than me. Anyway, maybe if I get enough fish, I can send you some...? [thumb]

Hope all is well Gene. I'll get the falcon to the next stage eventually...
Next weekend...not sure what's going on yet, but the one after that...I go to China for a week. Oh well, at least the foot massages are good.

dhbfaster
08-08-2015, 08:34 PM
My first Salmon...worth the weekend off...

dhbfaster
08-13-2015, 09:01 PM
Has anyone tried using DOT 5 brake fluid instead of DOT 3?
I bought some lines from inline tube (new engine lines, fuel line, and only the rear axle brake line), and they say I can switch to DOT 5. DOT 3 is fine, but DOT 5 silicone fluid repels moisture and will not harm paint, and because it repels moisture it will last longer with out any need to change it. It does say that in extreme conditions (i.e. drag racing...don't think I'll be doing that with my 144..) DOT 3 is better, but strangely enough DOT 5 has a higher boiling point...also, it supposedly doesn't leak as much. Anyway, just wondered if anyone has tried it. Everything will be new so I won't have to worry about mixing. If I'm going to go DOT 5 now's the time. :shift:

Jeff W
08-15-2015, 10:47 AM
My brother has used the synthetic fluid for many years in his Corvettes. He loves it. Now is your opportunity to go synthetic since everything is new without DOT 3 residue... I don't see a downside.

dhbfaster
10-07-2015, 09:26 PM
Roger and Gene...time for me to get the motor back in. except for this weekend and Halloween weekend, my weekends are looking pretty open. If you guys are still able and willing it would be great if we could schedule a morning to do it.

[BOW]

Looking forward to getting back at it!:3g:

Luva65wagon
10-07-2015, 09:44 PM
I can't this weekend either, but the next weekend will probably be OK for me. We'll see what Gene's up to.

SmithKid
10-08-2015, 08:12 AM
Next weekend may be OK for me too. I'll have to firm up as we get closer.

dhbfaster
10-08-2015, 01:56 PM
Sounds good guys and really appreciate it. Tentatively Saturday morning NEXT week then...and we'll firm it up via PM as we get closer.

dhbfaster
10-11-2015, 08:32 PM
Got the floor sound deadener in...you guys all probably know this but this stuff sticks a lot better when you warm it up before you stick it on.

dhbfaster
10-12-2015, 09:41 PM
Guys, one thing i have put off is the oil pump installation. I didn't take the old one off before I sent the engine to s&j so i have no memory of the installation...and when I got the renewed engine back, the new oil pump came separately in a box. Doesn't seem to be much in the manual or on the forum about it. The little shaft with the new one seems to be shorter than the old one too. As you can see I'm completely clueless on this! :doh:

Roger/Gene is this actually so easy we can do it real quick before we put the engine in?

Or anyone does have a good instruction on this to refer me to so I can have it done before the weekend?

Luva65wagon
10-12-2015, 11:28 PM
It's generally easy to do. The shaft gets sandwiched between the pump and block to make sure it stays put if you have to ever pull the distributor. It might have a push-on washer that goes toward the distributor opening (away from the pump).

When you say the new one is shorter, by how much is it shorter?

It's going to add maybe 30 minutes to the day to do this and then button up the pan. If you are uncertain, leave it and we'll do it with you.

Just to be clear... is the transmission going in at the same time or later, laying on your back?

dhbfaster
10-13-2015, 10:22 PM
Pic of the shafts attached. (In plastic is new).
I think I see what's going on now...the short side of the shaft goes in the pump, the pump bolts onto the block, then the distributor (gear) just slides over the other end of the shaft. Then just bolt on the oil pickup tube. Is it that simple?

If so, I can take care of that.

I was planning to take your advice and put the tranny on after the block is in.
If afterwards you can spend a few minutes and let me walk through how everything goes back on... That would be great.

Speaking of stuff back on...other than the water pump and timing cover (and maybe oil pan) I was planning to bolt the other stuff back on after the block is back in. Am I thinking right there?

Luva65wagon
10-14-2015, 01:26 PM
I was planning to take your advice and put the tranny on after the block is in.

Is my evil twin posting again! 'This' Roger would be putting the transmission and everything in at the same time. Can be done either way, but I prefer having everything out in the open and easy access - opposed to laying on my back. Otherwise you'll have to balance the motor on the mounts while the transmission is out. You may want the tranny dry if we do so, though, and fill it with gear oil after everything is installed. Less messy that way.

That is odd RE the shaft lengths. I thought all 144/170/200 shafts were the same length, but I think some of the early models had a smaller diameter shaft. These shafts seem to be the same diameter as best I can tell from the pics. I think I've only used short shafts.

You may want to look closely at this before assembly - or just wait until we get there.

The key concern is not having the shaft fall out of place if you pull out the distributor. The shaft goes into the pump (should engage correctly) and the retaining washer (pressed onto the shaft) allows the shaft to float between the pump and block. No binding. If it is too long the pump will not go on. If too short, the shaft will not be "captured" between the pump and block. Your old shaft would seem to indicate the pump-to-block spacing was 1.5" further way - if that was the shaft you had installed prior. Not sure you have the old oil pump or not, but this has me scratching my head at the moment.

As long as you have all the parts there, and everything is ready to install, we can put a lot on the motor that day. Generally I install only the tranny/clutch and motor mounts when dropping in the motor. Pan and timing cover should, of course, be done with motor out of car. I leave the water pump and balancer off to allow that extra 4" of clearance when lowering the motor in.

SmithKid
10-14-2015, 05:01 PM
Sure hope that shaft is long enough. It'd be way better to have the bottom end buttoned up for installation.

dhbfaster
10-14-2015, 09:38 PM
Roger,

My wife says to me all the time when I have said she said something "You must be thinking of your other wife" and I always say, either that or my GF. :ROTFLMAO:

I would definitely rather put the tranny on first and go all in at once.(..if that's what Roger recommends on Saturday.) I'll have everything related lined up and ready to go. I'm pretty sure the tranny has no oil yet as none seems to leak out...
That said, I do have the water pump mounted and all nicely painted. I hope we can do it without having to take it off...but if we have to we have to.

I have a bunch of extra foam from the seats....should I have it on standby to line the engine compartment??:NERVOUS:

I do not have the old oil pump. For some reason they just sent back the old shaft. I do have a pic and it looks about the same but can't really tell from it. I'll wait until you can take a look. Notice how the old one is only warn on the last 3/4" or so? Is it the short side that goes to the oil pump side? Working a few really long days this week and didn't get a chance to look again.
Gene, it seems like the old one has to be long enough.

Really looking forward to Saturday. [yay]

dhbfaster
10-17-2015, 01:16 PM
A great morning putting the 144 back into Granddad's Falcon. Huge thanks to Roger and Gene. [BOW][BOW][yay][yay]

Jeff W
10-17-2015, 09:55 PM
Awesome! Those guys are golden.:rocker: you are sure close to getting it on the road.

BadBird
10-17-2015, 10:55 PM
Looking very good. I wish I could have helped. I could have brought more blankets and towels too. I hope to help with the next step/steps when Carol and I get back from Tucson in November. Not staying for the winter. Just going down to visit my brother and his wife for a few weeks and get some golf in. Larry

ew1usnr
10-18-2015, 02:12 PM
Yaaaaaay!!

Great job guys!

Woohoo!

dhbfaster
10-18-2015, 10:15 PM
Larry, you can never have enough protection...:eek:

Still a lot of work to do, but at some point there will be a "start up" day...it would be great if you could make the trip down for that Larry.

Thanks for the support everyone. Got quite a few things done today, emptied several boxes of parts...but always a little slower than I expect...those little things...but my garage has a LOT more room. [yay]

A couple questions...mainly for Roger, but anyone please feel free to jump in:

..is the gasket that goes under the carb spacer (between the spacer and the block) the same as the gasket that goes between the spacer and the carb? and are those just used completely dry (no permatex or sealer?)

Roger & Gene...we were talking about how to make oil pump primer tool...this one on eBay is about the cost of buying one socket...will this do the trick? ($8)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KD-Tools-3448-5-16-Hex-Drive-Ford-Oil-Pump-Primer-/400878454905?hash=item5d5637c879:m:mb3MlH8d7JoDAEK qPCmOXIw

Carpet...I laid in the new (ACC molded) carpet so it would start to relax and I could check the fit. There is extra that goes up the sides and firewall. I found your tips about using the hot pipe for the seat belt holes...but what is best used to cut the edges of carpet? and keep it from fraying there?

Also, it looks like there's plenty of carpet to go way up the firewall. Is it best to glue it up there? Also, how to handle the steering wheel? Cut, then stitch it back together up above it?

Thanks all! [BOW][BOW][BOW]:shift:

Luva65wagon
10-19-2015, 10:00 AM
It was great to see the impeccable work done on this car. Awe is a good word for it. There are not enough towels to cover that. I did NOT want to be the first to scratch it. This is one fine restore.

[BOW] to all involved with it so far. Putting the motor in is a huge milestone, but that pales in comparison to the work exhibited elsewhere in this car.

Don, there are two different carb-related gaskets. The variety of these gaskets is such that you will generally not get them in an engine-build kit. But you should check on that. Even a carb kit will not provide the spacer to head gasket. The carb kit will have the correct gasket for it, which I assume you have from when it was rebuilt for you?

That is a perfect pump-priming tool and I may consider getting one for myself.

Carpet, where it is not bound, but cut-edged instead, is typically always hidden under something:
- under the sill plates below the doors.
- under the kick panels - pretty much about 3-4" high from the floor-board.
- under the firewall insulator by just an inch or two.
- there is a rubber bushing on the steering column (or should be) that you slide down to cover the cut edge there. There is only about 1 or 2 inches of cut above that, but it is not seen up that high.

They always give you about a foot of extra. Get the carpet pushed hard into the corners before you cut it and poke for holes for screws. If you use a good sharp pair of scissors, the fraying should not occur. Gene turned me onto some electric shears, which are awesome at cutting carpet. Not expensive at all, either. ~$30 at Lowes or Home Depot.

Burning the holes is key to keeping the screws and drill-bits from grabbing and pulling threads. Use a sharp awl-poker to locate holes for screws and if from below up into the carpet (like for seats), leave the awl in place poking upwards, and then use it as the guide to push the red-hot tubing over it. If you want to burn holes for screws, use a smaller tubing and push a heavy sharpened wire through the carpet into the screw hole. I have two sizes of tubing. 1/2" electrical conduit is perfect for the seat and seat-belt bolts. 5/16" brake tubing for holes below and behind things like the sill plates, etc. Nothing worse than pulling a carpet thread.

Can't wait the start day. I'll try to make it too!

Jeff W
10-19-2015, 11:37 AM
Agreed with all Roger says - below are my hints

- Be absolutely sure you have the carpet tucked tightly against the transmission hump before cutting the sides. Any looseness will quickly steal carpet from your freshly cut edge and you will see the silver Dynamat showing along your new gap.

- I used a fresh Utility knife blade for each long cut. Leave a tiny bit extra and trim a second or third time if needed. Too short sucks.

- For the hot 1/2" conduit of copper water pipe I held with a locking pliers (Vice Grip) as that tube becomes hot quickly when heating with propane torch.

- The kick panels may need a little trim during install (thicker carpet and pad?). I also ended up using a hot air gun and reformed the top edge where they met up with the bottom of the dash. Also had to trim a bit in that area - the area where the kick panel, dash and door panel all meet. Also the "gap" along the bottom where the sill plate doesn't quite cover the gap.



Question for Roger - is the 144 pump a 5/16 hex? I thought it was 1/4 and 200ci was the 5/16" based on the ability to install the larger distributor...

Luva65wagon
10-19-2015, 12:20 PM
- Be absolutely sure you have the carpet tucked tightly against the transmission hump before cutting the sides. Any looseness will quickly steal carpet from your freshly cut edge and you will see the silver Dynamat showing along your new gap.

I sense a little "been there, done that" in this hint... :doh:

Question for Roger - is the 144 pump a 5/16 hex? I thought it was 1/4 and 200ci was the 5/16" based on the ability to install the larger distributor...

Actually, I think 5/16" is the small size and they have a larger 3/8" shaft on the later motors. I had Don put a socket over the shaft and it was a 5/16" socket. I have a couple later-style distributors and will verify this larger sizing, but I think 1/4" is too small.

Luva65wagon
10-19-2015, 12:33 PM
OK - Hold The Phone - now I'm confused. Just a quick search seems to call out 1/4" and 5/16" shafts over and over (on one thread of The Hamb, anyway). This added to the oddity that the shaft Don was given back was about 1.5" longer than the new one he bought. The new one fit the pump and fit between it and the block. He didn't get the old pump back, so no clue if it would have accomodated a longer shaft like this. Had us all scratching our heads. I will swear we put a 5/16" socket over that thing. And I think the one I had in my Ranchero and then moved into my wagon when I transferred all that DSII stuff over to it, was bigger than 5/16. So, I'll know more after I look at my spare parts pile.

Looking at Classic Inlines site:
All 144ci engines, and 1960-mid'64 170ci engines, had a 1/4" hex drive-shaft. The mid'64-UP 170ci engines, as well as all 200/250ci engines had a 5/16" hex drive-shaft.

:confused:

Jeff W
10-19-2015, 04:27 PM
That is why I questioned it. The link to the Oil Pump Priming Tool was a 5/16" drive. I think the little distributor is 1/4". Something isn't going to work here.

Do you have to install a new pan gasket when the other one is only 1 week old?

:rain:

dhbfaster
10-19-2015, 04:51 PM
Nice find Jeff! No worries...I came home early so I could work where it's quiet before a 5pm conference call....read this, so I checked it. It's 1/4". No doubt about it. :BEER:

The long shaft (that we didn't use) fit perfectly into a quarter inch socket, so I put the socket on an extension, slipped it down into the opening in the block and it fits perfectly. I did a double check with a 1/4" replaceable bit screw driver shaft too...fits perfectly. I'll search for the quarter inch version on ebay.

More later...have to get back to work for a bit.

Luva65wagon
10-19-2015, 10:16 PM
Yep, found an old shaft from my two 200 blocks and it's 5/16 - so I guess I thought we used a 5/16" socket on Saturday, but it must not have been. Both Gene and Don can attest that I did most of the work on Saturday lamenting about my having forgot my readers. It's tough to see that close-up any more. But all this time I thought the V8 shafts were 5/16" and 1/4" seems just too small. Guess not...

:o

dhbfaster
10-19-2015, 10:21 PM
Questions.....:o

Carpet..Roger, you said in the front the carpet would tuck UNDER the firewall pad an inch or two?? I have about a foot there...it could go way up OVER the firewall pad (tucked behind the heater) which seems like it would be kind of nice (warmer, quieter, cleaner looking, etc.). Anyone done it this way or am I out of whack on this?

Img 84 attached shows the carb spacer and the new gasket (came with the carb kit) on the spacer and the old gasket beside it. (I think it's the old gasket...it looks almost new, but it has impression marks from the compression.) The old one looks like it fits better...and it's also a little thicker. Use old or new?

I can not seem to find a gasket for the bottom of the carb spacer. (Although the parts123 site some of our suppliers like Melvin's uses is down tonight.). Any idea where I find the right one?

Img 86 attached is the heater hose strap for the engine compartment. It is useable, but brittle. Anyone know where to find a nice "as original" one of these?

Thanks as always...[BOW]

Luva65wagon
10-20-2015, 09:02 AM
Ooops - I meant 'over' the pad a couple inches. Hurry-up replying between phone calls. Yeah, that's it.

The carpet will be sandwiched between the heater box and the floor, so that is OK to leave higher, if you want. The bolts for the heater box are long enough. On the driver side the kick panel and steering column rubber will hold the carpet up on that side. The "cut edge" will be up under the dash high enough it will not be seen and should not unravel over time. I have seen some cheap carpet replacements that sag on the driver side over time. If worried, you could use a screw or two just into the cardboard of the pad. Probably not needed.

You may need to make a gasket for that one you can't find. I find it easier, often, to make my own. They fit better and seal better. Most are a little too universal fit for my taste. Especially thermostat housing gaskets. It's a pretty thick gasket, so get a roll of thick gasket material and get crafty.

If the old gasket looks good (no tears), and it fits better, use it.

Luva65wagon
10-20-2015, 09:08 AM
Oh, that strap... I make my own. I've made a few for other members too. Not 100% exactly the same, but I think better. Dennis even got one in Florida, if I recall. I can do the same for you.

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18761&postcount=41

I'm not sure they are reproduced, but you want the original (which I might, if I were you) I might try mixing a bucket of hot(!) soap and water and see if it softens enough to clean and reuse.

dhbfaster
10-20-2015, 01:54 PM
ON the strap...nice!...but good point on staying original. I'm going to try to do that. I checked it out a little closer at lunch and it's tough enough not to break. Looks like the top side was painted black. I think I will clean it up, try some rubber conditioner, and paint the metal tabs with the Eastwood stuff (not sure what it's called...supposed to look original) and see how it looks. Thanks for the offer.

Carb gasket material...I was thinking about that...cutting my own that is. Where can I find the right material? Also no need for any sealer there I take it?

Generator adjustment (sliding) bracket...(the one between the generator and the water pump) this is another one of those illusive parts like the rear lic plate bracket, but I know exactly what this looks like...just can't seem to find one. I've been through every bin in my garage at least three times looking for this thing. :doh::doh::doh: Anyone know where I can find one?

[BOW]

Luva65wagon
10-20-2015, 03:56 PM
Making gaskets is pretty easy to do. You can trace them or use a small ball-peen hammer to transfer the shape you need to cut by peening around the item. Then cut. Get some hole punches from Harbor Freight.

Here's a YouTube where he made the template for a gasket with thinner paper, but I usually do the same thing, but only peen enough to mark the gasket paper and then use razor knifes/scissors/hole_punches to make the gasket.

https://youtu.be/HWbNw7moKl8

You can buy gasket material in many types and thicknesses from any good auto parts store. For carb gaskets - no sealer!

Bracket? Have you checked to see if it is still attached to the generator? I have the parts to convert it to an alternator, but I suspect this is not your desire. I may have a generator bracket somewhere, but if I do I have no idea where it would be. I hope to go through my backyard shed this weekend, as part of my spring-cleaning (a little late, I know), so maybe I'll stumble across one.

ew1usnr
10-20-2015, 06:19 PM
I have the parts to convert it to an alternator, but I suspect this is not your desire.

I like generators. [thumb]

It is cool to see the little red "GEN" light on the dash come on at an idle and then go out as the motor speeds up. My buddies in high school would ask why the warning light was lighting up in the Falcon wagon that I had back then.

Referring to the strap: "Dennis even got one in Florida, if I recall."

Thanks, Roger!

Dennis.

Luva65wagon
10-21-2015, 12:44 PM
Referring to the strap: "Dennis even got one in Florida, if I recall."

Thanks, Roger!

I'll take that as a yes? I was pretty sure I did, but not sure you installed it ever. Though I suppose it could have been the reason you won the ribbon last week, as fine a piece as it was. :banana:

dhbfaster
10-21-2015, 10:43 PM
Ok...back to my rear lic plate bracket...I'm seriously on the hunt here..:eek:

I finally found a pic of this thing in the parts book (am I the only one challenged with using the soft copy parts book??:doh::doh:...please tell me no) and I do remember that it looks like the bracket in the pic attached PN 17A778. I remember it being very rusty...and now I can't find it. I can't believe I'd be dumb enough to trow it away...but who knows. Anyway it seems to be the same on a 62 and 63. Now I just have to find one...

Oil dipstick...so if you remember a ways back in the thread I didn't get the dipstick fitting back from the engine rebuilder. Steve said he had one and he gave it to me...but alas, it doesn't seem to fit. So, I ordered a new one from falcon enterprises which says it should fit...says 1960-1970 "oil dipstick & tube - 6 cylinder" It's 2 inches longer and has the same tube Steve gave me. :doh:
(and when i put it in the block, it hits the bottom and sticks out about 2 inches.)
I look at the label on the other side of the bag...it's made by ACP...and it says "65-67 Oil Dipstick 6 Cyl., 170/200." Part FM-EO00B. I look it up on the ACP website and it say...for Ford Mustang 65-65....:(

So, I emailed Rosie and we'll see if they've got the one I need or not...doesn't seem to be anything else on their website. (Of course...I found it in the parts book...but the fitting looks still different than what I had...:bicker:

ew1usnr
10-22-2015, 02:25 AM
Hello, Don.

I have see those brackets on e-bay before, so there will probably be more:

5200

5201

5202

The bracket was missing on my car when I bought it and the top bolt holes had been covered up when the bumper had been re-plated:
5203

I had to make a bracket from an old licence plate (desperation inspires creativity). It worked. The bracket hold the light and the license plate is attached to the two separate metal strips that attach to the bottom of the plate. that You could probably do something similar as a temporary measure until you find the actual bracket.

5204

dhbfaster
10-22-2015, 10:54 AM
That's it Dennis....what are you searching on ebay to get that to show up in the search?

Falcon parts says my dipstick must have been changed...I'm thinking that's a pretty quick comment. That post would be more than a press fit into the hole in my block. I need to find someone else with a 61 with the 144 to go check.

dhbfaster
10-22-2015, 12:50 PM
For reference...here are some more pics of the dipsticks and the fitting on the block.

Img 87 shows new vs old. Old has the Ford logo and old is 8" instead of 10".

IMg 909 and 908 are a couple different views of the fitting on the block for it. (Which is really all I need.)

Meanwhile...I ran into omg 888...ug., this is the generator bracket...already restored! It has to be in my Garage somewhere hidden by the Falcon part gypsies!
:confused:

dhbfaster
10-22-2015, 11:30 PM
For the fuel pump installation fit up...do I just need to turn the crankshaft until it fits flush? (Then bolt the fuel pump down.)
The book just says " make sure the rocker arm is riding on the cam shaft eccentric"

PhilC
10-23-2015, 12:12 PM
Don - I replied to your email, but upon looking at your pics I'm pretty sure I have at least one of those license plate brackets.

As to the dipstick, I don't think it matters. Here's why. Your original dipstick is much shorter than the new one (eyeballing your ruler pic ~ 2.5"). The original dipstick was matched to the short "fitting" (actually dipstick tube) in your block. The new dipstick is longer than original, but matched to the dipstick tube supplied with it.

If you want it to look original, you could shorten the new dipstick tube to the length of the original tube and use your old dipstick, OR, use the new dipstick and tube as is. ;)

Luva65wagon
10-26-2015, 11:09 AM
Don,

After I got over my 2-day flu I did get out and look in my shed for generator and licence-plate brackets. I have neither out there, though I do have two more bins up in my loft to go through, which may happen tonight. Seeing pics that Dennis posted of the license bracket I do seem to recall having something similar to that, somewhere. Where it went, who knows. If I find it in those last bins, I'll let you know.

I did find that exact bracket you show in the baggie, but it isn't clear from that post from you whether it was that part you need, or the U-bracket that holds the generator to the block. That one I had one of when I got my Ranchero, but probably let that go to someone else a long time ago with all the other unneeded parts I pulled from the car.

dhbfaster
10-26-2015, 11:37 AM
Roger,
Bummer on the flu bug! :WHATTHE: Never good.
I ended up buying a generator bracket Friday night from a guy on Facebook that said he had one (not the U bracket, but the slider bracket.) It should arrive today or tomorrow...so if it's in fact correct I'll be set, so don't spend any more time looking. I have the U bracket.

Meanwhile, Phil (per below) says he might have the lic plate bracket, but I haven't heard from him to confirm yet.

Question on the carb - and apologies if I've asked this one before...for the brass fittings on the metal lines between the carb and the fuel pump- should these have any type of sealer on there?

Thanks as always...[yay]

Luva65wagon
10-26-2015, 12:35 PM
Most of all the fittings are inverted flare - with the exception of the vacuum tube from the distributor to the carburetor. That has a ferule-like fitting that tightens around the line and into the fittings on the carb and vacuum advance. I rarely find those locally and usualy try to reuse them if I make a new line. But all brake lines and fuels lines are inverted flare (3/16" on the brakes, 5/16" on the fuel) and these fittings do not require sealant. Fittings that go into pipe threads, which there will be one at the fuel pump and one at the carburetor, are tapered pipe threads and will need a good pipe thread sealant.

After many years or assembling fuel-related plumbing parts I use a Loctite-based pipe-thread sealant 100% of the time. Teflon tape is rarely, if ever, used. The company I work for (FloScan Instrument Co) makes fuel monitoring systems... where leaks and/or vacuum-induced suction leaks (where air being sucked in creates bubbles) is not a good thing. Use of Teflon tape is, in fact, cause for voiding a warranty. Excess use of pipe thread sealant is too, in fact.

dhbfaster
10-26-2015, 08:26 PM
Roger...thanks. After further investigation, looks like I've got some of the Permatex stuff for that in my garage.

My Cigar lighter....a pic of mine is attached. this is what was on the car as far back as I can remember. It doesn't have the crusty old creme colored knob that are like all the other control knobs...does anyone know if this is OEM? or is it just an aftermarket version?
When I ordered new knobs, I ordered a new cigar lighter knob, but it turns out it's a plastic creme colored one. The new knob is made to screw in, so if I want to use the new one, I'll need to find something for it to screw into.

Thanks!! [BOW]

Roger...that generator bracket did show up today. Facebook can really be a good resource. :rocker:

dhbfaster
10-26-2015, 09:58 PM
In the pic is the heater control. See the black angled tube fitting piece that t's off of it? it looks like a hose should hook up to it. Anyone know what this is? Is it supposed to hook up to anything?

Jeff W
10-27-2015, 01:38 PM
In the pic is the heater control. See the black angled tube fitting piece that t's off of it? it looks like a hose should hook up to it. Anyone know what this is? Is it supposed to hook up to anything?

That is AWESOME! The extremely rare vacuum powered heater control box!

Actually that piece was broken in the past and someone very inventive (maybe Grandpa) used a plastic hose fitting and epoxied it to help hold the metal wrap.

I haven't found that piece reproduced and ended up with a similar repair (not quite as impressive) on mine. Without that repair, the entire metal wrap woudl move in and out with the inner cable and not operate the metal divert doors.

I say use "as is" and keep your eyes open for a replacement.

Luva65wagon
10-27-2015, 02:39 PM
McGyver lives!

I've struggled fixing a few of these and I agree, this is a unique "fix." They have repopped them before, but any of those I've seen are worse than the originals.

The real problem with these is that you have a very stiff cable used to adjust a flapper that you are trying to twist to operate a switch. That interface to the switch part somehow seems to be less robust compared to a solid pull cable.

dhbfaster
10-27-2015, 10:04 PM
Too funny. You had me going for a few on your first sentence there Jeff!:ROTFLMAO:

That's originally what I thought...it looked like something for a vacuum hose, but I couldn't find anything moving inside it. And... A cable out the other end?? We re-epoxied it and it seems pretty solid. Granddad taught me about epoxy!

My Granddad was pretty Maguiver like...he could fix anything! He made one of those large Heath kit tv's that we all used to watch tv on in their den. I was pretty impressed by that back then. Of course I also learned a lot respect for solutions people originally from south of the border...and it could be that too!

Any thoughts on that cigar lighter?

Luva65wagon
10-28-2015, 09:30 AM
Interestingly, not long after the Falcon ended its run (in the US), heater boxes did move to vacuum controls. You just had an early prototype!

[thumb]

I sent at least one cigar lighter to Nathan, I think, but I may have another you can screw the new knob to. It may not be functional though. Those are getting hard to find. I'll look tonight in my spare parts bin to see if I have anything you can use and you can keep an eye out for an NOS unit so you can light your cigars.

dhbfaster
11-01-2015, 09:28 PM
Roger, Did you find that cigar lighter?
(I figure after this car is done...I'm going to deserve one!)
I also found this one online..but have no ideal if it will fit the housing I have.
Looks like the knob should fit though.
It's kind of pricey too...any thoughts?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1961-1965-FORD-Cigar-Cigarette-Lighter-Element-W-Bezel-62-63-64-C1TZ-15054A-/231737793900?hash=item35f4a61d6c:g:roAAAOSwv0tVFwe G&vxp=mtr

Luva65wagon
11-02-2015, 11:10 PM
Sorry Don. I've been slacking. :rolleyes:

I did find the one I had. Not as nice as that NOS one with the chrome ring though. Mine is used and don't know if it works (doubt it will), but it is free to you to fill the hole, if you want it.

Luva65wagon
11-02-2015, 11:15 PM
Falcon parts says my dipstick must have been changed...I'm thinking that's a pretty quick comment.

I doubt that it changed. I've see others short like yours was. I have a couple 200 blocks I will measure too, just for grins.

dhbfaster
11-09-2015, 12:19 AM
Roger...thanks :BEER: for the offer on the cigar lighter- I think I'll hold out and put a NOS one on my Xmas list. I can just use my old one until then.

Meanwhile....I took Kenny's advice (from his instructional thread) on the heater "pipe"...I had powder coated the top piece already (from the old one that was completely disintegrated). Now I have a really, really nice heater pipe! It fits the heater perfectly too. Somehow I even managed to get the seam pretty darn straight. Thanks Kenny! :rocker:

Luva65wagon
11-09-2015, 12:21 PM
No worries Don. As an FYI I picked up 4 "brand new" lighter elements at an estate sale yesterday. Generic models you can screw your new knob onto. Don't have the chrome ring, but I never knew those existed until you posted the eBay link. If yours is non-functional, one of these will at least function - and you can have one of them... for free! Yes, you read that correctly. Free.

:banana:

Also, that fresh-air duct part is a thing of beauty. Kenny has a tutorial for that?

dhbfaster
11-09-2015, 06:13 PM
Fa...fa...fa...free? [BOW][BOW][BOW]:BEER::BEER:
I'll take one! That one might even go into the housing I have now. Not worried about the chrome part...that's a future detail. Thanks Roger!

dhbfaster
11-09-2015, 10:52 PM
Kenny does have a nice tutorial... http://www.redfalken.com/pages/heatercollar.html

I also worked on the instrument panel and related wire harness last weekend.

Fuses...mostly oversize! I'm talking 30A instead of 15A. Got most of those taken care of.

I don't know how many of you saw the old picture...but this instrument panel looked REALLY dull. After I dug in:

All new light bulbs. They were sort of welded in place they were there so long.

Only one light had the original cardboard around it...and it was so brittle it was almost dusty. The other three were missing so I made four new ones using black poster board and Kapton tape to line the inside (which can handle super high heat.)

I also painted the sun faded gage needles with fluorescent paint.

I used the McGuiars plastic polish Roger recommended on the plastic lens and it cleaned up really nice.

I used 0000 steel wool on the outside metal bezel which had some kind of film over the entire thing along with a lot of overspray and it turned out beautiful. It looks like this is made of the same anodized aluminum that the grill and headlight bezels are made of. I think the whole thing turned out pretty darn nice.

One question: See the attached pics, behind what I would call the LEFT turn light indicator I shined a flashlight and it has a RED lens. The right one has a GREEN lens. Before disassembly I did find that the car has both right and left turn signals that work. But I had this pedometer rebuilt. (and now yesterday I saw a NOW one for less than what I paid to rebuild...) Anyway... Back in 61 was the left indicator light supposed to be red and the right green? I kind of remember my Dad mentioning this, but I'm not sure. [BOW]

Luva65wagon
11-09-2015, 11:56 PM
Don,

This thread pretty much explains this issue and what I did:

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236&postcount=286

You may have already had the wiring change, but what did he do with the high beam? Turns out when I did this for Steve's SD I didn't factor in the needle swing when I added a middle red high beam indicator and it would hit at about 42 MPH and stop when it hit the tube. He had the chrome on the lens style dash as seen here:

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14160&postcount=443

Anyway, I have in my pile somewhere more green cel if you want to have green and green.

:BIRTHDAY:

Also can you PM me your mailing address? I'll mail you over the lighter element. By the way, these are real Casco elements, just like was used in back then in these cars.

dhbfaster
11-10-2015, 08:13 AM
High beam indicator! Duh. :doh:
That's pretty funny but pretty cool. I so expected that it was the left indicator that I completely missed the text on the diagrams that said "high beam indicator." Now this is sort of an indicator of an economy car isn't it. I love it just like it is.[BOW]
That is a sweet mod though Roger. I can see why it would start to annoy you eventually....so who knows I might change my mind!
If I did that one now, someone might think I actually know what I'm doing. (What are the odds....)

Luva65wagon
11-10-2015, 09:41 AM
Well Don, we wouldn't want to have people start thinking something like that. You might have to start working on everyone else's Falcon too!

:WHATTHE:

Not that you are not proving to be quite gifted!

[AGREE]

I have the same signal function on my '65 wagon, but as I mentioned in one of those two threads; it's hard to do this mod when the dash actually calls out 'High Beam' and 'Turn Signal' on the dash face. The pres-64 dash's didn't call them out - with the exception of the Comet dash - and so these were a no-brainer. Anyway, have not done it on my wagon, though I want to. Drives me crazy this design!

Also 'PING' on the PM with address again. Your phone number too would be nice to have. Can then put it in my phone like I should have a couple weeks ago. Might save Gene and I an hour of searching (again) sometime in the future. ;)

dhbfaster
11-12-2015, 10:26 PM
Ok, a couple of "what's the deal with this" questions::confused:

First the standard radio speaker that goes into the dash. I plan to keep my original AM and send it to a place to refurbish it (possibly with a hidden iPod port..). I love those old push buttons. Meanwhile, while I'm at it I might as well replace the speaker and get that on my xmas list because I have enough socks. The old one is really brittle. So where do I find a replacement?

At falconparts.com:http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/1960-1965-5-X-7-RADIO-SPEAKERS-21p979.htm
It says it won't work with the stock radio due to the "impedance mismatch."

wiki:"Acoustic impedance, a constant related to the propagation of sound waves in an acoustic medium." Hmm.....

Well, I don't need a $45 speaker for this application anyway....but where to find one that will fit.

At Macs: http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_falcon_mercury_comet/radio-speaker-assembly-dual-voice-coil-140-watts-falcon-1.html
Looks like the same speaker to me (based on the picture)...except it will "drop right in" but what about the impedance mismatch? it says it will work with "our radios." I guess that means not the falcon radio.

AT Classic auto parts: https://www.classicautopartsonlinecatalog.com/app.php?BookCode=con11flx The only original speaker for the front it says is for 67-70 falcons. ($25) Seems to look correct, but apparently not.

Melvins...nothing. eBay...seems like something has to be there but I don't see it.

Does anyone know where to find an original style speaker that will have impedance to match close enough my original AM radio?
I also emailed Crutchfield to see what they say. (Their website said "your car has not been researched.")


Also, the wire harness connectors that are the male female bullet type. It turns out the blue 14-16 gage bullet type connectors you buy at AutoZone etc., are too small for the black female types under my dash (don't say it.....:NERVOUS:) Anyone know where to find the bigger classic bullet connectors? I only need a few actually, but I don't want to replace both ends with the blue ones if I don't have to.

[BOW][BOW][BOW]

ew1usnr
11-13-2015, 04:10 AM
Hello, Don.

Look at: https://www.classicautopartsonlinecatalog.com/app.php?Search=speaker&BookCode=con&from=2

They have a 5" x 7" OEM speaker for $24.95. I ordered one and it fit perfectly and works great with my vacuum tube 1962 AM radio. The price is still the same as when I ordered mine in 2012. I bought a two-prong connector at O'Reilly auto parts.

See:
OEM # SKU # Description Unit Qty Price
C0AZ-18808-5X P18-28930-075 REPLACEMENT RADIO SPEAKER EACH 1 $24.95
B5A-18912-A P18-29065 ANTENNA LEAD GROMMET EACH 1 $3.95

Attached is a picture of the speaker that was in the car when I bought it.

5234

The original paper had crumbled and a clever person had mounted another smaller speaker in the frame of the old one. But the paper in the smaller speaker had disintegrated also and all that was left was the center of the cone. It was amazing, but the speaker still worked. It was high-pitch and tinny and not very loud, but it still worked.

Notes:
1. Chuck Berry sounds best when played through a single dash-mounted speaker.
Carol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYYr4-Red-U

2. Your little Falcon is one of the coolest cars on the planet.

Luva65wagon
11-13-2015, 12:02 PM
Don. I may have one. I pulled one out of my 66 pickup that is stock Ford and it looks really nice. I'll send it over with the lighter to have you do a test fit.