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Worry List - Freddie's Transplant

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Posted 09-28-2009 at 02:59 PM by MacDee
Updated 04-30-2010 at 11:51 AM by MacDee (Updated)

As I look through the steps required to swap Freddie's engine and trans, several make me very anxious. Those especially that include some sort of nebulous “beat to fit, paint to match” wording. The following are my worries, thoughts and progress reports on SOME of the steps. I will update this blog as progress continues.
Comments, suggestions and wisdom will be GREATLY APPRECIATED! (Gotta share my worry....)
21. Clean and detail engine bay and underside of hood. Pat has offered the use of his painting equipment, but first I need to get PAINT to MATCH Freddie’s color to paint the upper part of the firewall and underside of the hood. (Have obtained a pint of matching blue from Wesco. I was able to re-activate the left-over sample from the paint job enough to brush it out on a piece of metal for Wesco to match.)
23. Determine drive shaft length. If we’re going to get this bird done in two days, it seems like we’re going to need to have the drive shaft ready to go when we start. The two days will be weekend days, and I’ll bet we can’t get a drive shaft modified over the weekend! I'm hoping we can modify the donor Mustang's shaft without using Freddie's. On 9/26 I did some careful measurements and was able to determine the Mustang drive shaft is 1 inch (7/8 actually) too short. (Roger has donated a spare Falcon driveshaft so I will use it and the forward end of the Mustang shaft to get a custom shaft made. My measurments indicated the shaft should be about 52 inches, u-joint center-to-center. Jeff W has a driveshaft out of a Falcon that had a C4 adapted into it. It measures 52 3/8 so I think 52 would be just about right!)
33. Adapt/fabricate transmission linkage. Kenny was able to rig up his old one to work with the C4. Will I be able to also? How much actual fabrication will be required, and what parts/materials will we need on-hand to accomplish it? (Will need two end fittings and a piece of 5/16-dia steel rod. Workin' on that..)
37. Install speedometer driven gear…. Which gear do I need to get? Will the one from the Ford-o-matic work in the C4?
I was not able to determine Freddie’s speedometer cable gear ratio, however it looks like Freddie’s speedo cable will plug right into the C4. Also, Freddie’s speedo cable driven gear has the same number of teeth (16) as the Mustang’s. I thought the Mustang had a higher rear end gear than Freddie’s, but maybe it had 3.20:1 as well. Didn’t think to check the Mustang’s rear end ratio! (The Mustang's rear is 2.79:1. Nothing makes any sense. I believe I'll just put the gear out of the Ford-o-matic into the C4 and see what happens!)

39. Adapt/fabricate throttle linkage. I need to decide on carb orientation and what pieces we’ll need to adapt the throttle linkage. I kind of like longitudinal orientation; looks more conventional. Looking at pictures of some other installation, however, it looks like lateral orientation would be easier to hook up….
Carter is concerned about mounting the carburetor laterally. Unless the carb is specifically set up for “sideways” installation, acceleration forces could cause a fuel bowl to empty and cause a lean surge. I played around with the carb and intake manifold and determined that placing the primaries forward and secondaries aft, the throttle linkage is between the carb and the engine and interferes with the intake manifold. Placing the primaries AFT (essentially backwards from a typical V8 installation) puts the linkage on the outside of the manifold, away from interferences. With this arrangement the throttle lever would need to be PUSHED forward from the firewall (or pulled somehow from the front of the engine) to open the throttles. I think this is the same situation as the stock carb. I need to pull my air cleaner off and take another look at the stock throttle linkage setup.
Forget all that. I have decided to use Lokar throttle and kick-down cables. I got a gas pedal from a '79 LTD that will work with the Lokar cable.

40. Adapt/install fuel line. What pieces will we need? Seems like this ought to be pretty simple to figure out, but there isn’t going to be much time to fret with it! The fuel pump-to-carburetor line is fabricated. We will only need to adapt the line from the tank to the fuel pump.
42. Alter and install charge system wiring for alternator. (I have accomplished the generator-to-alternator swap already. If we do a test run on a test stand, we can use my old generator to wrap the belt around.)
43. Install resistor across charge light. Hmm… (Did this. Spliced in two short pieces of wire on either side of the light socket, and then hooked a Radio Shack 15-ohm, 1/2-watt resistor between the wires. The resistor seems to be "needed" because Ford did it on their early alternator installations. My guess is that Ford discovered the charge light was experiencing short life and used the resistor to reduce the overall voltage to the light.)
44 Install tachometer. Picked up a tach at NAPA. Looks like I can strap it to the steering column kind of over to the left. Hides light and wiper switches only.
47. Install auxiliary transmission cooler. Carter had one he’d gotten for his Caravan before he discovered the Caravan already had one! It’s a whole brand new kit with “everything needed”. I hope “everything” is everything!
57. Drive to muffler shop. Is Ballard Muffler a good place to go? Should I pay them a visit ahead of time IN FREDDIE to have a consultation with them?
Never mind. I purchased a new full exhaust system from Classic Inlines; duals, x-pipe, 1-3/4 pipes with OEM mufflers (maximum quiet...).


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Comments

  1. Old Comment
    pbrown's Avatar
    37) Count the number of of teeth on the drive gear before installing the tailshaft housing. It will probably be eight. You'll need this for the speedo gear calculator. Here is a good calculator:
    http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech...eedo_gears.asp

    You'll probably need a 22. You have a 20 now. The cable will fit the C4 just fine.

    21) You can go to Westco and have them mix some blue based on the color code for your car. I would go with PPG DBI single stage urethane for this application.

    56) I used Walt's muffler near the corner of 15th and 65th. It's close. I don't recommend them at all. They do crap work.
    Posted 09-28-2009 at 04:59 PM by pbrown pbrown is offline
  2. Old Comment
    redfalken's Avatar
    I share your worries! Lots to do in a weekend and lots of details to think about! Here's my 2-cents on a few things.

    Definitely get a tranny jack if you can. Even rent one if needed. They make the job soooo much easier.

    My shift linkage was a combination of old Ford-o-matic top half and new C-4 bottom half. I basically just welded them together and did a little tweeking. You might consider a Lokar if time is tight. They work pretty slick for sure!

    It would really be nice to measure the drive line when the engine/tranny is in place but I understand your dilemma.

    Sure you don't want to take Monday off work to wrap up all the little things???
    Posted 09-29-2009 at 12:24 AM by redfalken redfalken is offline
  3. Old Comment
    MacDee's Avatar
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pbrown View Comment
    37) Count the number of of teeth on the drive gear before installing the tailshaft housing. It will probably be eight. You'll need this for the speedo gear calculator. Here is a good calculator:
    http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech...eedo_gears.asp

    You'll probably need a 22. You have a 20 now. The cable will fit the C4 just fine.

    21) You can go to Westco and have them mix some blue based on the color code for your car. I would go with PPG DBI single stage urethane for this application.

    56) I used Walt's muffler near the corner of 15th and 65th. It's close. I don't recommend them at all. They do crap work.

    The new tailshaft has 7 teeth. Counted about six times before installing the tailshaft housing to be sure I had it right! Freddie's driven gear has 16 teeth. The donor Mustang's speedo cable (still have it) also has 16 teeth. The calculator you refered to says I should have 19 teeth on the driven gear. The next time I'm over at Carter's place, I'll check the ratio of the donor Mustang's rear end (still have that, too!).

    Color code for my car won't work because it's not the original color. The blue on her now is a stock Maaco color that is significantly darker than the original Glacier Blue. They gave me a little bottle of the left-over paint they used to paint the car, but it's so old now I doubt if it's usable.

    Ballard Muffler got great reviews on Yelp. Sounds like kind of a dirty hole-in-the-wall place where they treat you right, know what they're doing and provide great service.

    Thank you for your comments, Pat! It's comforting to know others are helping me worry!
    Posted 09-29-2009 at 08:32 AM by MacDee MacDee is offline
  4. Old Comment
    MacDee's Avatar
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by redfalken View Comment
    I share your worries! Lots to do in a weekend and lots of details to think about! Here's my 2-cents on a few things.

    Definitely get a tranny jack if you can. Even rent one if needed. They make the job soooo much easier.

    My shift linkage was a combination of old Ford-o-matic top half and new C-4 bottom half. I basically just welded them together and did a little tweeking. You might consider a Lokar if time is tight. They work pretty slick for sure!

    It would really be nice to measure the drive line when the engine/tranny is in place but I understand your dilemma.

    Sure you don't want to take Monday off work to wrap up all the little things???
    Thanks for your comments, Kenny! I'm a little short of vacation time, but one more day might be a good idea!

    I have the the floor shifter from the donor Mustang. I'll see if any of the pieces from it might be usable in modifying the column shift linkage.
    Posted 09-29-2009 at 08:39 AM by MacDee MacDee is offline
  5. Old Comment
    Luva65wagon's Avatar
    Quote:
    12. I’m guessing, no, ASSUMING the engine is too long to be able to hoist engine out with the transmission attached.


    I've never found it to be a problem pulling engine and tranny out at one -- or putting it in.

    Quote:
    21. I need to get PAINT to MATCH Freddie’s color to paint the upper part of the firewall and underside of the hood.


    Keep in mind this is under the hood and everything will have "shadow lines" or "distance" to help minimize the ability to see if something is a perfect match or not. The two paints will not be on flat surfaces next to one another. My fenders are a different color as is my tailgate. I have to point this out (though I should just keep my mouth shut). Also, I couldn't get my interior paint, but I bought a close color and got mini amounts of two other colors (in my case black and silver) and mixed my own by trial and error. Other than some issues with the flattening agent, it went well.

    Quote:
    23. Determine drive shaft length. ~ Even though the Mustang also used a 7¼ -inch rear, it’s companion flange (pinion yoke) is larger than Freddie’s. Carter suggested just swapping the companion flanges. We removed the one from the Mustang’s rear end and is ready to be installed on Freddie’s rear end, IF it will fit. “Replace the seal while you’re at it!” says Carter.


    These rear-ends use a crush sleeve and removing the yoke and installing another may muck with this preload spacer/crush sleeve -- effecting bearing preload. You typically don't want to fool with these unless you are planning to rework the entire rear-end -- and from what you are having to do you may just need to do that in the not-too-distant future. I have a driveline from something laying around here I will donate. I welded mine to add my Dagenham 4-speed. I never had it balanced, but I machined a 6" long sleeve to join the two drivelines together on one end. It was a press-fit and didn't allow for mis-alignment. It's smooth as glass. I think, if you have the Mustang driveline and the Falcon driveline, we can weld up a good-enough-for-now driveline to get you home and then to a driveline shop for the "real thing."

    Quote:
    33. Adapt/fabricate transmission linkage. Kenny was able to rig up his old one to work with the C4. Will I be able to also? How much actual fabrication will be required, and what parts/materials will we need on-hand to accomplish it?


    This will be minor surgery compared to the rest. No need to worry much about this. Other than maybe adapting the steering column indicator. Of course, I should have read Patrick and Kenny's notes too.

    Quote:
    37. Install speedometer driven gear…. Which gear do I need to get? Will the one from the Ford-o-matic work in the C4?


    Ford used mostly all the same type gears for years, though some were lefties and some were righties. I'm sure what you have will suffice to get you going, then you can determine after-the-fact the direction you need to go. Again, don't sweat over this for that weekend.

    Quote:
    39. Adapt/fabricate throttle linkage.


    I'd search the PullaPart and find a throttle cable and pedal assy. we can adapt. Far more flexibility there. Kick-down linkage may be another issue to work through, but I think there's going to be greater issues consuming these 2 days that that. As for carb mounting, it's not so much and issue of "emptying the carb" but rather starving jets. I've seen those Holly's mounted so many different ways, I think we'll have to cross that bridge when we get there. Does Inlines have anything to say about this?


    Posted 09-29-2009 at 09:39 PM by Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
  6. Old Comment
    Luva65wagon's Avatar
    Quote:
    40. Adapt/install fuel line.


    This is nothing to be concerned about at all. Fuel-line can be had anywhere (metal or rubber, as needed). I can bend up a brand new line from the pump up to the carb. I've replaced all of mine on ever car I've owned just to make them look new. If you plan to use high-flow SAE fittings, well, that needs to be purchased ahead of time. I don't think you're going to need to go that route personally. Again, these are things that can be done anytime after the swap.

    Quote:
    42. Alter and install charge system wiring for alternator.


    Converting from Generator to Alternator may want to be done after. Carter can do whatever he wants on the engine stand, but in the car it may eat up time we don't have. It can be left for last if you have all the bits... and time permits.

    Quote:
    43. Install resistor across charge light. Hmm… Where do I get a resistor? Radio Shack? Do I solider it on the back of the instrument circuit panel, or where?


    Not sure about this one. Where are the numbers you are quoting from... from?

    Quote:
    44 Install tachometer. Picked up a tach at NAPA. Looks like I can strap it to the steering column kind of over to the left. Hides light and wiper switches only


    Like 42, this may be a "if time permits" sort of thing. Not really needed for the swap itself.


    Quote:
    47. Install auxiliary transmission cooler.


    Simple to do and not a big time eater. Bring it along since we're also going to have to run new tranny coolant lines anyway.

    Quote:
    56. Drive to muffler shop.


    If you know what size the collector is on the headers, you can buy a set of u-bends and straight pipe and we can build something to get you by. I'll have to look at your pictures again, me thinks. May have other ideas. Again, Sunday evening is the best you can assume being done, and nobody will be open. We'll have to do a temp job at the very least.


    Hope this helps a little.
    Posted 09-29-2009 at 09:39 PM by Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
  7. Old Comment
    pbrown's Avatar
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacDee View Comment
    Color code for my car won't work because it's not the original color. The blue on her now is a stock Maaco color that is significantly darker than the original Glacier Blue. They gave me a little bottle of the left-over paint they used to paint the car, but it's so old now I doubt if it's usable.
    Brush that old paint onto some flat scrap anything and take it with you to Wesco. They should be able to scan the color and get pretty close. I'm sure nobody will notice. It will give you a good source of fresh touch up paint too.
    Posted 09-29-2009 at 10:16 PM by pbrown pbrown is offline
  8. Old Comment
    redfalken's Avatar
    I would HIGHLY recommend getting a cable throttle assembly. It is so much smother and will install with much more flexibility (both literally and figuratively). Any of the 80's cars at Pull-A-Part with a six should work. It's a pretty easy install. You can drive around without a kickdown and it won't hurt a C4. It can get installed later when you have time to figure it out.
    Posted 09-29-2009 at 11:23 PM by redfalken redfalken is offline
  9. Old Comment
    MacDee's Avatar

    Update - Paint, Axle, Driveshaft - Tentative Date?

    I was able to bring the old bottle of leftover paint back to life enough I could brush out a sample and took it to Wesco. I will have a pint of "matching" blue tomorrow.

    Using the Mustang pinion yoke flange on Freddie's rear is no longer an option. I bought a new seal for the Falcon rear end, but the Mustang yoke will not fit through it. I will need to scrounge another Falcon six shaft to take to Drivelines NW along with the Mustang shaft, or jury-rig something on the day of the swap. I am confident the length needs to be 52 inches, u-joint center-to-center, so I see no reason to not get one made up ahead of time.

    Carter goes in for knee surgery on October 21. He should have the engine done the week before that, so TENTATIVELY, we could install on the weekend of October 17. That's the weekend after the Monroe swap meet....
    Posted 10-01-2009 at 04:34 PM by MacDee MacDee is offline
  10. Old Comment
    Luva65wagon's Avatar
    Gary, as I mentioned in my very long reply, I have a driveline kicking around and you are welcome to it.
    Posted 10-01-2009 at 04:37 PM by Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
  11. Old Comment
    Jeff W's Avatar
    I may be in Oak Harbor that weekend but I can drop off the engine hoist at Pat's house before then. I will return his welder at the same time in case you need to fab something on site.

    It doesn't have the load leveler that Roger talked about. I have never used one before but maybe Roger can bring his.
    Posted 10-01-2009 at 10:17 PM by Jeff W Jeff W is offline
 

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