Thanks Gene, that's what I was expecting actually- but I didn't seem to ever get to a detent. I'll try that again tonight.
Printable View
Thanks Gene, that's what I was expecting actually- but I didn't seem to ever get to a detent. I'll try that again tonight.
Gene beat me to it, but yep, that's how you do it without door switches. Those are pretty easy to add, by the way. Just need to pop in the switches. In fact I think I may have the harness. But I've said that sort of thing before to only discover I already gave it away. If I ever run across it, it may be something you can consider.
You asked elsewhere about rust in the cylinders if you don't get it started soon. Inside a garage I wouldn't be too concerned in the span of a few months, but if years went by it is never a bad idea to fog the cylinders and crank the motor over a few times - even by hand. I'd probably be less concerned with a new motor over one that was previously running. A new motor, if assembled correctly with a boat-load of assembly lube, which is ultra clingy stuff, is more apt to resist rusting than a previously running motor where gas has pretty much washed away most of the oils off the walls of the cylinders.
Roger, so is it worth spraying a can in and rotating it once or twice a few times before I go to China? or do you think it is better to just leave the original stuff since we're only a few weeks away anyway?
You can't go wrong doing it, but your garage is very dry, so would not worry about it. April 9th we should be starting it. Knock on wood, or my head.
"Very dry"....:ROTFLMAO: As someone that grew up in the desert that's a pretty funny thing to hear, but it's all relative. [BOW]
It was hard to say too, relatively speaking. :rolleyes:
Ok, need a little muffler advice.
The place I bought my muffler from online finally sent me one that seems to fit.
Do I need to put any kind of sealer in-between the pipes before I put the clamps on?
No sealer.
Thanks Jeff!
Whew....back from two weeks of work trips and a 14 hour flight. Can't wait to get back to the falcon tomorrow (if I can stay awake.):banana:
We still on for this Saturday for startup Roger?
All your stuff is right where you left it.
Kenny and anyone else able to join us?
I hope this week to get the muffler on, and at least have the brake lines bent...(probably leaving the flaring for Saturday.)
Sounds good Roger...anyone else able to join us?
I will send good thoughts and a warm breeze from Hawaii;:)
Spring break! Yeah!
It's supposed to be 80 degrees on Thursday. That's too hot for April if you ask me.
I like that it will be a little overcast, maybe even a slight sprinkle, on Saturday. My allergies have been so brutal the past 5 days and as of today I have lost my voice - the meds to clear my sinus's have killed my throat. Makes it tough to do phone support at work.
Don,
Hmm... Not sure where the club will be on Saturday - seems they've all decided to take vacation. No vacation for me so I'll be there and will do my bestest to move things forward. Thankfully this allergy thing is starting to fade. Has been a rough few days up until just yesterday when I started feeling a bit more normal (term used loosely). It wouldn't have kept me away, but I'm tired of people feeling sorry for me.
:o
If anyone else is out there and wants to work on a very sweet Falcon, please ring-in. I'm sure Don would love to participate in all our future fun, with a car, sooner rather than later. Every hand helps towards this goal.
Thanks-
where is this party at? I might be able to sneak away, and I think I owe Don a bit for helping me put my delivery together.
Don lives in Federal Way. He can ring-in with address PM. I'm sure he'd be happy to have you there helping.
Sorry, just saw this post! I should be able to come down this Saturday. I may not be there until 10:00 and need to take off about 4 or 4:30 latest. Should be able to knock a few things off the to-do list though!
Roger and Kenny - Awesome! Donuts will be there.:rocker:
If anyone else wants to join us let us PM me. To those of you un-names on vacations and galavanting around other parts of the country...I know you will be there in spirit and we'll get out an update so you can check in.
I did get the muffler "on" last night. It seems to be a slightly crooked though...haven't completely figured that out yet...hope I can solve it with the bracket or something else.
Front tie bar business...2nd set doesn't fit! I'll show you in the morning Roger.
Roger and Kenny look forward to seeing you in the AM [BOW][BOW][BOW]
Sorry about posting this twice. Once the second one was posted I could not figure out a way to delete it.
Hello, Don.
I like your little 144 ThriftPower Six and am looking forward to hearing that you guys have brought it back to life.
After that I will look forward to seeing photos of you and your family taking it on trips.
Dennis in Tampa.
Granddad's falcon came to life today!
Hopefully this link to the video works:
https://youtu.be/gvnpMx4lqD8
Still some work to do on the carb. Still need to finish the front suspension and doors, and mirrors...and a list of other minor things, but it's getting close.
Kenny got a lot done on the doors today.
Huge thanks to Kenny and Roger today as well as everyone who has helped all along the way and those there in spirit today.:BEER:[yay][BOW][BOW][BOW]
It's Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Frankenstein would be proud! Wish I could have been there. Carol and I should be back in town in late May. Hope to see the car at shows after that. Larry
Congratulations! Nice work everyone. It sure sounds smooth and looks great.
Good idea to have Kenny laying on the ground watching for oil gushers. That's the excuse he uses at work too... I tell him it must be hard to see with his eyes closed and all that snoring disturbing him.
Thanks everyone.
Roger- Debbie sent me a note about the carb and is wondering if it's possible it could be the spark arrester (aka power valve??). A pic attached...the left one in the pic is what came off, the right was new??
Also...here are the pictures for the carb during before, during and after Debbie rebuilt it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/408343...7666852771562/
Worst case I do see one NOS carb on eBay (pricey...and wouldn't it need new gaskets, etc. (rebuild kit anyway??) Also, some rebuilt ones with a guarantee on eBay and at Macs. (also pricey.) I didn't see any new (yet) ones like I mentioned earlier.
Kenny...your jacket is in my garage...:WHATTHE: too bad, you might have to come back to get it. Maybe you can take care of the other front door while you are here...:ROTFLMAO: Just kidding. I'll get that to you somehow if you don't come back.
Don and Crew, Congratulations! Sorry I couldn't be there to witness.
The video worked great, Don.
I'll grab the jacket next time we see each other. I could probably get the other door done in about 20 minutes after doing the first one. Took a lot of time just to figure out what went where and in what order.
Good luck on the carb. It sounded great and once you get that figured out it should be smooth sailing!
Sound good Kenny! I'll save it for you.:rocker:[BOW]
Roger- I am cleaning up (derust and paint) the old big round "washers" and "tubes" from the tie rod bushing kit so we can use those with the bushings after you machine them. I will also try to get the nut on the tie rod loose one more time. :bicker:
Attachment 5616
Roger is machining the rubber bushings?
I smeared mine inside and out with silicone grease prior to installation.
Interesting. That set looks like the 2nd set I bought (which doesn't fit.) However, neither set came with instructions. (Mine is different than both sets.) Now I can see how the orientation (direction) of the large washers is designed to be. Can you post another picture of those instructions showing the entire instruction? The torque is also interesting.
Roger is meticulous...I generally am too...but even I would have used the hack saw on this and never thought of machining them. Machining them will be much better though. Thanks Dennis.
Thanks Don. I'll have a look at this all while I have it open too. Power valve "looks" have changed, so I'm not sure that will reflect on the function. If they are in the bag, I'll look close at it all.
It did seem to run gooder in the beginning and only as it ran longer did it start running less than gooder. So if I don't see anything in the carb we'll have to brainstorm a bit.
D- One thing I'm wondering is the valve adjustment. These are solid rockers I think, so maybe as the valves seated themselves and the cam broke in we had something(s) go too tight. May have to pop the valve-cover and check them anyway. They would have only had a cold adjustment. Look at it from your side too.
As I explained to Don I'm not sure I've ever seen a set of these bushings being all the same. Every brand made them "better" than the next. These bushings I've been carving/machining on are very hard solid rubber. Not like any I've ever seen on a strut-rod. I've also seen instructions with washers cupped out on both sides.
So, as I searched for the word on Saturday that would not come (it was "defy") I defy anyone to find instructions for setting up strut rods with factory parts. I've looked. Logic tells me how I think they should be setup, but maybe they are further adjusted at the alignment shop.
I think we only need to shorten one bushing - the front side. As it stands the back bushing, washer, installed bring the the lower control arm forward to the right spot (as I see they should be). But the same thickness on the front keep me from installing the second washer and then the nut. If the front bushing was trimmed (machined) I could get it on.
D- I don't think those sleeves will fit in these bushing. Clean them if you would like, but not sure we can use them.
D- I'm not sure which NUT you are referring to. If the Strut-rod and not tie-rod, don't bother. I think when I'm done, we'll be fine.
But yeah, nothing new fit correctly as-is. Frame holes were too small, strut rod diameter too small. Nuts too big or too small. Washers too big to clear. This set I'm using were too thick only, but ID was fine, though the new nut they supplied would not thread on. Original bushings seemed they would, if reinstalled, pull the lower control arm forward almost 10 degrees, which I would think would be a heavy bind on the control arm bushing. So I'm not trimming these that much.
OK I've rambled enough... :o
Roger, not sure why, but that link of the carb pictures I posted only seems to show two pictures now. I thought I tested it, but here's another try:
https://www.flickr.com/x/t/0092009/g...39@N07/W27Spt/
It should show 73 photos. In case the link doesn't work, I attached the pic of the back of the spark arrester. The back of the spark arresters (old vs new) does look different from each other. No idea whether or not that's the problem. Just something Debbie noticed was really different looking.
Ok...I won't mess with the strut rod nut.
Start talking valves and such...getting way over my head.:WHATTHE: Should I pickup a new valve cover gasket to have on hand?
Thanks Don. They may still be doing the same thing. They are vacuum bypass valves and the ends you see are not pressing against anything. They are just supposed to open and close (maybe more or less) with engine vacuum. This varies the spark advance. Your motor has no centrifugal advance in the distributor, so this valve varies you vacuum advance. Ford better idea!
But I'll look closer at this when I get it all apart. But right now I would not be too concerned with the design difference of these two.
Who put the valve cover on? I usually only seal the gasket to the cover so you can pull it, but if it is glued on both sides, then it will probably be a bear to remove and a new gasket will be needed.
We really should check valve clearance, but maybe call the engine builder and see what they say regarding preset and post-run valve adjustments. Don't want to stray from anything they set in a warranty.
Don,
Spent a couple hours looking the carburetor over and first of all, the thing is really clean. That is for sure. That said, there were a couple things I found.
The first being the washer that seals the float/seat body to the carb body. It was aluminum and it didn't offer any resistance to loosening it. My guess is it didn't compress much and the first hot/cold cycle left it looser. Could have allowed fuel to flow into the bowl before the needle and seat. Hard to say. I changed it to a copper washer and tightened it good and tight.
The second was the power valve/accelerator pump plate. It was pretty warped and the gasket behind it was very fuel soaked. I used my granite plate and sandpaper and took care of that. Here's the before and after, but I should have blackened the thing for more contrast. You can see the bottom two corners and furthest corner have been sanded at. Took a lot of sanding to make it flat again.
Attachment 5628 Attachment 5629
I will look into the power valve tomorrow.
So there were some things. Whether any of them make a difference is to be seen, but this is one of the better little Holley's I seen, so it should be OK.
Also came upon my Pertronix kit for a 6'r and it needs a home. May be yours if you want it. I will not use it. Will make you a smokin' deal on it.
More as I find it to offer.
Wow, :WHATTHE:, super cool that you found a couple things on the carb right away. Both those seem plausible to me (but of course...I don't know much!)
ON the valve cover gasket- you know how I am- I wanted to do it more gooder so I used the goop. I'll buy another gasket one just in case. There's a Napa a block from work.
Vacuum advance stuff...I'm still pretty fuzzy on how all that stuff works.
Pertronic ignition- That's just the module that replaces the points inside the distributor right? if you say it's the way to go, then let's do it. The points setup seems a bit flimsy. [BOW][BOW][BOW][BOW][BOW]
It's alive! :BEER:
Nice to see and hear your engine run Don, must be really happy to reach that milestone.
Read of the strut rod bushing issue, and best I can recall, the 60 and early 61s cars used smaller strut rods than later models. Memory is a bit foggy on this, but seem to remember the early strut rods had issues and Ford beefed them up later in the production run.
What I do know is, the early models used different bushings. I ran into this several years ago (easily 15+) and remember going back and forth with the supplier to finally get the correct bushings.
On the off chance you don't have it, I've posted the pages from the shop manual re: strut rod and bushing replacement and diagram of strut rod arrangement (not the best copy). Disregard if you already have that info.
Keep up the good progress! [thumb]
Phil
Phil,
These struts are smaller than those on my 63 or my 65. The bushings I have (to rework) are close the correct ID for the strut (under compression they should collapse and remove any slop), but the bushing has a step in it intended to go into the front frame hole to center it. It was almost 1/4" too large to fit in the hole. There was also a bushing of sorts in the hole I removed. Helped little. So these I was able to carve these to fit.
That wasn't so much a problem. The problem is that the depth of these bushings is pretty fixed (they are very stiff) and if you install a washer, a bushing, shove it in the hole, a bushing... now you have barely the space for a washer much less a nut. The back nut could be backed up (Don tried, but could not get them to budge), but as it is right now, with one bushing left AS-IS and a washer behind it - the lower control arm is held with little binding of its bushing - i.e., not being pulled forward against the lower control arm bushing. So if I can thin-out the front bushing to get a washer and nut on the thing, we may be golden. That's the plan so far.
I don't like how stiff these bushing are though. I expect them to be more rubber than plastic-like. These are more plastic-like. Like a POLY bushing, but I don't think they are Poly. I see these bushings splitting in my minds-eye, but we'll have to watch and see.
I've labored a few time to explain this on the forum to a couple folk. It's still out there burning holes in "the cloud" I'm sure. But as basic as I can get...
Your car, unlike most cars, has only vacuum advance. Most cars have mechanical and vacuum advance. Ford's better idea was the Spark-O-Matic system, or some such name as that. :WHATTHE: This is only a vacuum advance and uses a special carburetor to feed the correct vacuum to the distributor to advance your timing.
You have to advance timing (cause the spark to occur earlier) as your engine RPM increases. The fuel still need "time" to burn, so you usually need to advance timing to give it this chance. It also needs to vary based upon load. This is usually where a combination of centrifugal (mechanical) advance and vacuum advance work in tandem. Each offer varying characteristics to allow for overlapping conditions. But you have only one type, which has to work well in all conditions. It sort of did.
Anyway, the special carburetor is the key to this working and the spark control, which is an odd term relating to a carburetor, has this special vacuum feed to handle spark advance via only vacuum. If you use a carburetor with this circuit missing (ask me how I know about that - :doh:) or if the wrong spark advance valve is used, the car will be gutless at best and will detonate itself to pieces at worst.
I have no way of knowing if your new one is right, but I know the old one doesn't have a hole in its diaphragm. But I don't know if it was right either. I'll probably leave the new one.
These are consistent if anything. No adjustment, wear, rare failure, steady output signal. Points worked for years, obviously, but required dealing with them (adjustment or replacement) often. Points are now almost all Chinese made (no offense to anyone, or you Don), but the quality has gone way down on any I buy today. There may still be a gooder brand to spec out, but I just find them easier to replace with a Pertronix than bothering with points - at least on my own stuff. Pertronix, I'm sure, loves to hear that. The set I have were on my wagon, but I upgraded to DuraSpark II ignition on it to gain mechanical advance and to install the Weber carburetor.Quote:
Pertronix ignition - That's just the module that replaces the points inside the distributor right? if you say it's the way to go, then let's do it. The points setup seems a bit flimsy.
Man...Your really causing the gray stuff to stretch. :o
Ok, I did a little reading at lunch...have a few dumb questions and then I'm going to study all this more tonight when I have a chance (unless it gets in the way getting the muffler on right.) My questions/comments below under your comments in quotes and bold...
"Your car, unlike most cars, has only vacuum advance."
WOW. What I'm confused about is I thought that inside my distributor I saw weights and springs. That is not the mechanical advance? Did I see only springs? (I wish I was home to check to confirm that's not my imagination or something I saw on youtube.)
" Most cars have mechanical and vacuum advance. Ford's better idea was the Spark-O-Matic system, or some such name as that. :WHATTHE: This is only a vacuum advance and uses a special carburetor to feed the correct vacuum to the distributor to advance your timing.
You have to advance timing (cause the spark to occur earlier) as your engine RPM increases. The fuel still need "time" to burn, so you usually need to advance timing to give it this chance. It also needs to vary based upon load. This is usually where a combination of centrifugal (mechanical) advance and vacuum advance work in tandem. Each offer varying characteristics to allow for overlapping conditions. But you have only one type, which has to work well in all conditions. It sort of did.
Anyway, the special carburetor is the key to this working and the spark control, which is an odd term relating to a carburetor, has this special vacuum feed to handle spark advance via only vacuum. If you use a carburetor with this circuit missing (ask me how I know about that - :doh:) or if the wrong spark advance valve is used, the car will be gutless at best and will detonate itself to pieces at worst.
I have no way of knowing if your new one is right, but I know the old one doesn't have a hole in its diaphragm. But I don't know if it was right either. I'll probably leave the new one."
Ok, I think I understand everything down to this last paragraph. But just to confirm, you are talking about the carb and the diaphragm in the carb?
Ok, on the Pertronix, no offense on the China thing...you know I could easily start a side conversation on that..., anyway, the Pertronix simply replaces the points and changes that function to solid state correct? Seems kind of no-brainer.
So it does seem like vacuum is very critical then. Do we need to measure it more precisely? When I had my finger on that tube- it didn't seem like there was a whole lot of vacuum there.
What about the coil? Could a weak coil cause the problem we were having? Any way to test it? Ok, I'll save the rest of my ignition questions for later... Added this: http://classicmechanic.blogspot.com/...tion-coil.html
Phil...thanks for the info. Glad you caught the video too.
Back to work for me...
Don,
1) You'd have a very rare 6 cylinder distributor if it had weights and springs. There may be (memory is fuzzy here) a spring (only one) to pull the point plate back when vacuum isn't present, but no weights for sure. This spring may actually be in the vacuum advance too, since I can't picture its presence in my memory.
2) Yes, the external "power valve looking thing" is the Spark-o-Magic vacuum controller. It is spring-loaded to open only when the vacuum is strong enough to operate it. If the spring is too strong or too weak will greatly effect the advance curve.
3) Yes, Pertronix is a no-brainer... especially when being offer to you at a smokin' deal. [yay]
4) Vacuum at that port should have been full. I'll hook my vacuum gauge up to it next time and actually measure it. This might be helpful.
5) Coils are easy to measure with an ohm meter. Plenty of on-line tutorials on that. I suggest the Pertronix site since they also have a requirement for the Pertronix 1 kit, which is what you'll be putting in. The spec should not be too far off even for a the original coil, which is what I used too (yellow-top coil). I have a couple of these laying around too, if you find yours to be questionable.