Or maybe.... Freddy Will be back on the road.
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Or maybe.... Freddy Will be back on the road.
Or Maybe - The Curse of The Freddie! Coming to a theater near you.
As some of you already know...
Freddie is BACK ON THE ROAD!!
I picked her up from Long's Car Care yesterday morning. The culprit turned out to be the torque converter.
She now has new wheel bearings, new axle bearings and seals, new rear brakes and wheel cylinders, a newly rebuilt transmission... upgraded with V8 clutch packs, and... a new torque converter. In the past 11 months, I have just about doubled the total investment I've made in this car. :NERVOUS:
However, she now runs and drives great! :p
See y'all at the Ford Picnic...
So...
We took a little drive last weekend. Did some shopping, and when we took off to go home, I inadvertently selected second gear instead of drive. Since the reverse lock-out was marginal, whenever I do this (this was the third time I've ever done it...), I pull off, stop, reselect Drive, and go again. Wife said, "I'm not riding in this thing again until that is fixed." So, back to Long's she went with the new shift collar in the front seat.
Got her back last night, new shift collar installed. The shifter works GREAT now!! I would have no qualms about shifting while in motion now.
But...
On the way home from picking her up, I pulled off of the main highway on to the road approaching our neighborhood, and she LOST ALL DRIVE! Acted like it slipped into neutral, but that wasn't it. I could shift, and it would feel normal, and I could hear/feel the transmission responding, but no drive to the wheels! When I shifted into gear, there would be a mild metal-to-metal scraping sound, but no drive. Shift into neutral or Park, and the scraping sound stops.
Isn't there, like, one band that engages the drive? Maybe it broke, or popped loose, or something?
She'll be on the tow truck back to Long's again this morning. :(
Man, you can't win for loosing! It's beginning to sound like you need to change the name of this thread to Freddie's Back in the Shop!
Or maybe that has already been suggested in this thread at some point.
:doh:
Definitely sound like either a band popped loose or the torque converter shredded itself. Maybe it's time for a 5-speed... :confused:
Maybe Freddie has a last name and it is Kruger?
:WHATTHE:
Just heard back from the shop. The NEW torque converter, indeed, shredded itself!
There were no more torque converters available locally, so they're importing one from Michigan!! Won't be here 'till next week. Even the Ford Picnic is looking questionable at this point.
Speaking of luck... Here's a story I've never told before:
When I put the new seat covers in back in 2001, I found two little pyramids under the back seat. I remembered there once was a "fad" about pyramids, they were supposedly mystical and brought you good luck. Some previous owner of the car was superstitious, I figured, and put them in there for good luck! I'm not superstitious, so I didn't put them back when I replaced the seat. They've been sitting on my work bench ever since.
Attachment 4897
It looked like they might be valuable, otherwise, so I was just keeping them. From a recent search on the Internet, I discovered they're worth... about $15 each. So they're not valuable. But...
The first thing I'm gonna do when I get Freddie back,
...is SHOVE THOSE THINGS BACK UNDER THE SEAT!!
Wow! That explains everything.
You offended the Pharaohs and they inflicted the mummy's curse.
Attachment 4898
(You probably had the same expression when your new torque converter disintegrated).
Put them back! Put them back!
Which is worse. The mummy curse of sitting on two sharp things poking through the rear seat. Probably the mummy curse.
This has got to be the first time pyramids and mummies curses was on a car forum. :banana::NERVOUS::BEER:. Larry
You should throw a few dollar bills under the seat for good measure. They have pyramids on them too. That ought to help future products installed on the car to survive for sure!
:rolleyes:
It'll give some future owner a booty to extract years down the road. That 'is' for certain.
I got Freddie back last night. She runs and drives great!! (As she did the last time I tried to drive her home from the repair shop!)
I put the pyramids back under the seats...
I'm hoping to have enough confidence in her by the time of the Maltby show to take her there. It's only five miles from home....
Come on Gary! Have faith in the pyramids... and AAA.
[AGREE]
I'm thinking I can use some of those pyramids on my first drive....:rocker:
Are you putting three pyramids in the car. AAA looks like three pyramids to me.
Well, we took Freddie for a nice long drive last weekend. We took her out on to SR202 between Duvall and Carnation and got her up to a steady 50 mph. No vibration!! She ran and drove very nicely, and she didn't break down! [thumb]
She'll be making her public RE-debut at the Maltby show this Saturday (6/20). Hope to see some of y'all there!
Hello, Gary.
You are cruising with the protection of the Pharaohs.
Attachment 4940
Gary, I am very anxious to see the completed car. Carol and I, with her mother are in Ogden Utah this evening and hopefully I will make the Maltby show. See you and others there I hope. Larry
Freddie is running really well. We took her for a nice long drive (if you call 40 miles a nice long drive) and had no issues.
Well... one issue...
She tends to want to quit if you let off the gas really quick.
Say she's idling... goose it once and let off quickly; the engine speed will drop way below idle speed before she'll catch and continue running. On the trip, I was stopped at the entrance to the highway waiting to make a right turn. (There's a blind curve to my left so I can't see approaching cars until they're right there.) I start to move out to make my right turn, and suddenly there's a car rounding the blind curve. I let off, hit the brakes, and the engine quit.
I'm afraid to speculate, because this thing has been tuned by a PROFESSIONAL. I'm concerned, though, that maybe some of the stuff I did to the distributor and carburetor while trying to get the "previous build" to run may be jeopardizing its tune now. What I did may not be appropriate for the new, "shorter", cam:
The distributor has the flyweights arranged to provide the maximum amount of mechanical advance, 26 degrees if I remember correctly, and I put in the lightest springs on both weights. It's got a really quick, and long curve!
We (well... Pat) modified the Idle Fuel Restrictor port on the metering block in the Holley to provide more fuel at idle. It was the BREAKTHROUGH for the problem of the thing not being able to idle! I subsequently worked out throttle-response issues by going to richer main jets. The carb originally had #51 jets, it's now running #57"s.
I told all this to Professional who did the latest build, but I don't think he touched anything in the distributor or carb. I don't know how he decided on the initial timing, and I'm sure he only adjusted the idle mixture screws on the carb.
Any ideas or comments on the "wanting to quit" issue? ...or tune-up techniques? I'm tempted to try to re-tune it myself, but I'm very anxious about changing what the Professional has done!
Gary,
Because you have an automatic you'll want to add an anti-stall dashpot to allow the idle to come to the stop slower. With an automatic there is a tendency for the torque converter to load the engine on deceleration and cause a stall condition. Flywheels in manual cars have more inertia and prevent this. You can easily add one to the Holley by ordering their kit. I'm on my phone answering but you should be able to look it up on Summit and then order on Amazon if you choose.
Hope this helps.
Hmm...
It does it even at idle in neutral.
Though...
A dashpot would probably help that too!
Thanks, Roger!
Okay...
I found two possible brackets at Summit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-20-58/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-20-72/overview/
...and a dashpot:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-11-4
From the description for the dashpot:
"These Holley carburetor dashpots are designed to be used on manual transmission vehicles. They will prevent engine stalling on sudden deceleration, fits most Holley dashpot brackets."
I can't see how the bracket(s) would fit, and can't find an installation guide to clarify. How would I know which bracket to get, and why does it say the dashpot is to be used on manual transmission vehicles? :confused:
I'll be taking Freddie to her SECOND public appearance since the "rebuild" this Sunday at Country Village in Bothell. At the Maltby show, a representative of Corvairs Northwest invited me to enter their Orphan Car show at Country Village, so I did!
I think that they made a mistake (see notes below).
Here are some photos of the dashpot and bracket on my Autolite 2100 carburetor to maybe help you visualize how your bracket and dahpot might fit together:
Attachment 5014
Attachment 5015
Attachment 5016
Attachment 5017
See Page 8 on: http://www.hansenwebdesign.com/truck...Carburetor.pdf
Tech Notes: "Engines equipped with automatic transmissions require a dashpot anti-stall device as protection against loading the engine when the accelerator pedal is suddenly depressed and released. The dashpot retards the closing rate of the throttle plate as it approaches the idle position, allowing the engine to dissipate the raw fuel discharged into the intake manifold by the accelerating pump. The dashpot slows the final phases of throttle plate closing by means of a spring-loaded diaphragm. When the accelerator pedal is released, the throttle plate approaches the idle position and a tab on the throttle lever contacts the lower edge of the dashpot lever. This rotates the dashpot lever, causing the dashpot lever to impinge on the dashpot diaphragm rod. As the rod is moved into the dashpot, the tapered step of the rod engages the diaphragm washer. Continued movement of the rod will cause a corresponding movement of the diaphragm, compressing the air in the diaphragm chamber above the diaphragm. The compressed air bleeds out of the diaphragm chamber through a groove in the seat of the diaphragm washer, retarding the closing speed of the throttle plate. This allows the engine to properly use the charge of accelerating fuel, preventing stalling from an over-rich condition in the manifold. When the throttle is again opened, the pressure is released from the dashpot diaphragm rod and the dashpot return spring moves the rod off its seat in the diaphragm washer. This allows air to flow back into the diaphragm chamber as the spring returns the rod and diaphragm to their original position.”
Gary - would be helpful to see similar pics of your carb near the throttle lever. And yeah, I think that was a typo on the manual transmission thigh.
The description on the bracket says "for Holley carburetors with two tapped holes in the throttle body...". I looked at my carb and saw the two holes. With that, and the pictures Dennis provided, I think I can do it!
Thank you, guys!
Passing this on - just in case the instructions are not clear on this issue.
Though a dashpot has been used as the idle stop by some (I've have the pleasure of working on) it isn't supposed to be. The dashpot should start to work around, maybe, 1500 RPM and should control the deceleration the rest of the way towards idle. This is debatable and adjustable by you. Regardless, there should be some amount of travel the dashpot plunger can still travel while the idle stop lever is against the idle screw. The dashpot is simply a "slow-down device" and not a stop. Don't let it be the idle stop and depress the plunger all the way to its physical, internal, stop.
In addition you mentioned (after-the-fact) that it was dying just sitting there idling in neutral. The dashpot will not solve this issue. But I say address one issue at a time. If the dying at idle in neutral still occurs afterward, this may just be a idle screw or air/fuel adjustment.
I intend to adjust the dashpot such that there is just enough throttle-closing delay to prevent the "underrun".
From Dennis' explanation, it seem like (I hope, anyway...) that maybe it will. If the problem is indeed the rich shot of gas from the accelerator pump, the dashpot would help that, too!
We'll see. That entire explanation seemed odd to me (no offence to you for posting it Dennis) but why would this not also be an issue with a manual car and require the same thing? The other benefits may exist, as noted, but it isn't clear from what I read how this relates to manual versus automatic. And only automatic cars got dashpots.
I tutored under some pretty wise mechanics in my youth and I recall a discussion I had with one of them on this subject. I had a '62 Falcon I had swapped in a 289 from my Fairlane into it and had similar stalling issues. Drove me crazy. I changed carbs and didn't have a dashpot. They explained it just about the same way I did that it had to do with the "free-spinning" inertial effect of a manual-clutch flywheel versus that of a low inertia flex-plate with an inertia-robbing torque converter which tended to load the motor on deceleration. The dashpot created an artificial "inertial effect" similar to the clutch flywheel. I've never verified what they said in this age of the Internet, but it still makes sense to me.
Interesting how you think of something the instant you hit "Submit!"
Perhaps this burn condition occurs because on a manual car the fuel is given a chance to burn whereas an automatic car it isn't. So both explanations may be correct and one is the effect of the other. Given the inertial effect of a manual flywheel perhaps the burn-time is extended and you don't create a rich stall condition.
Gosh, now I've got to find out more on this. :doh:
The Forum is pretty quite, so I'll throw out this bit of silliness...
I showed my car at a little show at Brittany Park Assisted Living Center in Woodinville a couple of weeks ago. While there, I noticed a woman who seemed to have some authority at the facility in that she seemed to be directing some of the volunteers and staff and was chatting up the residents and car owners.
As she approached my car, I noticed her name tag said "Freddie". "FREDDIE!" I shouted. Her eyes lit up, she looked at me, and her smile turned into a "do I know you?" kind of a look. I then pointed to my car and said "HER name is Freddie, too!" I showed her Freddie's "baby book" which explains that her name is Freddie because of the front license plate frame (Fred's Fine Cars), but that she is actually a she because of, obviously, the baby blue color and the whitewall tires.
Freddie, the woman, turned out to be the Marketing Director for the place, and she was named after her father. He died before she was born, and her mother had decided to name her baby after her late husband regardless of gender.
What a delightful coincidence...
I still think it's all closer to a Freddie Kruger sort of thing when it comes to Freddie... but that's just me sayin'
:NERVOUS:
As you'll read in my thread... it is contagious.
Cool story though.
Haven't been working on the car much, but I did finally get the dashpot installed... not that it did much good. More about that in a minute.
I ended up buying BOTH of the brackets shown for Holley carbs in the Summit catalog. Neither one fit. The holes in my base plate for attaching the bracket were too small to use the screws supplied with the brackets.
One of the brackets appeared as if it would pick up both of those hole locations, so I made some "bushings" to fill the holes in the bracket so I could use smaller screws which fit the holes in the base plate.
That worked great... but the bracket placed the dashpot WAY TOO CLOSE to the throttle lever.
Okay... I figured out out the other bracket fit, using ONE of the holes in the base plate and one of the carb mounting studs. That one positioned the dashpot just about right. Cool!
Well, I couldn't seem to get the dashpot adjusted so it did any good! It would either hold the throttle open, or else it would not be effective. I couldn't find any middle ground! In the meantime, I stripped the stupid threads on the PLASTIC body of the dashpot!! I finally just took the thing off and threw it on my workbench.
Subsequently...
I found this video demonstrating how the dashpot is SUPPOSED to work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJuzhLorW1A
After watching that, I think I've figured out what my problem was (is)... my throttle return springs aren't strong enough! If I had the dashpot adjusted anywhere close to where it should be, the throttle lever would simply stop as soon as it reached the extended dashpot, and not close any further. The return springs couldn't overcome the friction inherent in the dashpot!
So I guess my next step is to get some stronger springs, and a new dashpot.
Are throttle return springs generally available at auto parts stores? I really don't want to buy another spring without giving it a "pull test" and comparing it with my current ones. Also, am I stuck with buying another stupid plastic Holley dashpot, or is there something available that fits the same but is made out of METAL?
Gary – I can’t answer your questions, but I do recommend you start a vigorous exercise routine so you have the strength to overcome the added pressure that will be required on the accelerator pedal after spring installation.:ROTFLMAO:
Gary,
You can buy springs in a kit with multiple sizes or you can buy them individually. As time marches forward I find I have a box full of springs since you can never tell what you'll need. I found McLendon's has a very nice assortment of individual springs of many shapes and sizes. I was so impressed I took a picture that day:
Attachment 5437
I'm just a little perturbed by making adjustable threaded things out of plastic. They do the same thing with those under-dash brake light switches. Good luck not messing one of those up. You may be stuck with the Holley dashpot. I tried to find one different when I added the dashpot to my Ranchero and other that some NOS thing they are not readily available.
Have not been able to watch video yet, but having adjusted so many of these it sounds from your description you are on the right track.
I know that there are metal holley dashpots. Not sure which one you would need. Go to ebay. As far as the spring, when I had the single four barrel it had a dual spring set up that was pretty stiff.
Jeff's sadistic :ROTFLMAO: answer sure got a laugh out of me. Jeff, what would we do without you.
I didn't realize the dashpots were so expensive. Before I would worry about the spring issue, and you check if pushing back on the throttle to the dashpot works? Best of luck. Larry
:p
My setup uses dual springs, but they are very light. The gas pedal is so light it's actually quite touchy. I would prefer a stronger spring!
I did see a metal dashpot on the interweb that looked about the same size as the Holley, but it was $93!! Not gonna spend that much for a "maybe it'll fit" part!
Thanks, guys!
Can you poke around the Pull a Part and see if you can find something that may work off another rig? Likely be only a few bucks. You can give all the springs a good feel and maybe find a factory metal dashpot. Wear you galoshes.
Okay, I found a dashpot on ebay. It was even listed as an "NOS 1963 Falcon" dashpot. Must be the same one Dennis has on his 260! It is all metal, looks exactly right, and I couldn't resist the coincidence!
It should arrive around Jan 26.
Naw, it's not the same as Dennis'. I just went back and looked at his pictures. It looks like a perfect replacement for the stupid Holley one, though!