Little @ time

**Guy Monjure** · January 30th, 2012, 01:37 PM

Gave up for the day. I will get after her in the morning. The battery read 12.29V when I left the shop. I checked continuity on the 3 main fuses behind the ignition switch and they are all good. We will see what it reads tomorrow morning.

It sounded like it was going to start once after putting gas into the carb.

Hopefully I'll have better luck tomorrow,
Guy

**Luva65wagon** · January 30th, 2012, 03:44 PM

Guy,

When starting the car, all the start and run voltages come from the starter solenoid. The brown wire should be on the S terminal of the solenoid and the Red/Blue is on the I for ignition. The solenoid will send 12 volts to the coil on start.

The brown wire (on a car with an automatic) gets 12 volts when you turn the key to the Start position, but it first goes through the neutral safety switch. A manual transmission car does not have this.

When the car starts and you let off the key to the RUN position, then the coil now gets voltage through the resistance wire under the dash. About 9 volts.

Coil voltage tests-

1) You can check these two voltages at the + on the coil in both Start and Run positions of the ignition switch with the MAIN cable to the starter removed to keep the starter from rotating.

Start/Run circuit tests-

1) Take a test light or volt meter and connect it to the brown wire going to the solenoid and the other side of the test light/meter to ground. Any socket with two wires and a 12-volt light bulb will work. You just need to make sure you can see it from inside the car as you turn the switch to the start position.

Note: No need to have this brown wire connected to the solenoid while doing this test.

2) Turn the key to START. If the light doesn't glow or 12 volts read with the ignition key to the start position, then you are not getting voltage to the start terminal of the solenoid.

3) I would then verify at the key switch, using the same light, the red/blue wire. If you have voltage there, but not at the brown, you may have a faulty neutral safety switch, or it is not adjusted correctly. This has to be adjusted to allow 12-volts to flow from the red/blue wire at the switch, through the neutral safety switch, then on to the connector at the firewall, which then turns to brown as it goes to the starter solenoid.

A big note of caution: If you use a remote starter switch to turn the motor over, and you have the key in the RUN position to start the car, be aware that if the car is in gear when it starts, an accident is in your future. Be very careful. You have had the engine and transmission out and adjustment of the linkages may not be 100% correct. Make sure PARK for the shifter is putting the transmission lever into PARK.

If you do get 12 volts or a light to glow when turning the ignition key to START, but the motor will also turn over when using a remote start switch, then there is a demon possessing you car. Run, run fast.

**Guy Monjure** · January 31st, 2012, 07:03 AM

Luv65,

I went out to the shop and found the voltage on the battery to be 12.22V. This is a good sign, no shorts! The engine turns over great so I do not think the internals are messed up at this point.

OK, I had the solenoid brown and red/blue swapped. The engine turns over without bypassing the soleniod any more. So the solenoid and neutral safety switch are wirer correctly. Thanks Luv65!!!

Yesterday working by myself I put the key into the run position, not all the way to the right, or start position. I will hold the key in the start position untill it starts next time.

With the starter wire disconnected and the key in the run position I have 12V on the + side of the coil. Thanks Luv65!!! If she does not start I will continue working through the start/run circuits.

No demons, no running.
Its going to be a good day,
Guy

**Luva65wagon** · January 31st, 2012, 10:07 AM

Guy,

Glad you're making progress.

I've been debating, and others have brought it up too - and now when I see it abbreviated down to Luv65, even more so. I now have a 65 wagon and a 63 Ranchero and my user name no longer works for me. I guess I may could change it to RogerLuvsFalcons. But that's kind'a foofy.

I use the Luva prefix as a memorial to a friend of mine, Rick Swan, who passed away a few years ago. I used to work with him and he once sold me his 86 Dodge Colt station wagon, which he'd bought new, and loved it so much (stories of how he used his station wagon...). Uh hum, anyway, he was a professional drummer and my wife and I (when she was) went to see him play one night and as we walked into the club he yelled over the PA - "Gotta love a station wagon." So the Luva sort of only applies to station wagons for me in remembrance of Rick.

Anyway, sorry to hijack this thread with my little story, but I guess, for now, I'm Roger - until what time I come up with a new Username that fits me better.

**Guy Monjure** · January 31st, 2012, 01:40 PM

Roger,

Good story!

She wants to start so bad. A couple of times she backfired. I thought I was sure about the distributor placement but not so much now.

I have air. I have gas. I have fire to the coil. I think I will take the coil plug wire off at the distributor and see if there is a spark.

Which way do I turn the distributor to advance the timing? Is it clockwise or counter clockwise?

So Roger it is,
Guy

**Luva65wagon** · January 31st, 2012, 01:55 PM

Sure sounds like maybe a tooth off or so. Or 180 degrees out, which is more common. The distributor advances timing on a 6-cyl going counter-clockwise.

**falcon cobra** · January 31st, 2012, 04:59 PM

Sorry to say this but don't you have a falcon shop manual ? if not why not ?...jh

**Guy Monjure** · February 6th, 2012, 05:18 PM

To everyone, I am working this as my hobby. It is a way for me to enjoy my day. Any ones ideas will be entertained, so help if you can!

Still working the wiring. I am using Part 2-1, Ignition system maintenance inside the 60-62 Falcon shop manual.

I have 2 issues outstanding of the manual.
1. I have a Pertronix Ignitor 2, which the car drove on every day before I started working on her.
2. I converted from a generator to an altenator, which caused for a different Voltage Regulator.

I followed Figure 5-Starting Ignition Circuit Test.
My voltage dropped out, too 0.45 volts.

I worked my way through each Figure test before the above one and passed all of the voltage requirments.

For tonight I am thinking the starter ignition circuit is roughted incorrectly.

My wife says to stop thinking above it,
Thanks Roger "CC"
Guy

**Luva65wagon** · February 6th, 2012, 11:05 PM

I don't have a book with section 2.1, but I can say:

- At the + side of the coil you should have the red/green wire
- In the run position the red/green wire at the coil should have 9 volts.
- If you don't, then trace that red/green wire back to the firewall connector where it is combined with the red/blue wire (that wire goes to the solenoid I terminal) . You should read 9 volts in that terminal.
- If you do have 9 volts there, then there is a break between the firewall connection and the coil.
- If you don't have 9 volts at the firewall connector, then make sure the pink resistance wire under the dash is plugged into the short red/green wire coming off the ignition switch.
- You should have 12 volts at the ignition switch red/green wire where it plugs into the pink wire.
- If you have 12 volts there, but not at the other end of the pink wire (where the red/green wire plugs in from the coil), then the pink resistance wire may have failed. It happens. Easiest fix for that is adding a ballast resistor and running a wire from the stubby red/green wire at the switch to one side of the ballast resistor, the other side to the coil.
- That is all the tests

A Pertronix unit will want full 12 volts. So you should have a wire from the center of the ignition switch (the long stud) to the red wire of the Pertronix.

Again, the + side of the coil, if a stock coil, needs 9 volts in the run position and 12 volts (from the solenoid) in the start position, as I mentioned in a previous post.

**Guy Monjure** · February 7th, 2012, 06:43 AM

Thanks for your help Roger,

As soon as it warms up this morning I'll get after it again. I'll keep you posted.

Had to reference the manual in my last post to let others on our site know were I'm coming from.

It's a party for sure when this baby starts!!!!!!!!
Guy

**Guy Monjure** · February 13th, 2012, 11:36 AM

Still no joy!
I'll go through my findings so far, I need help.

1. I removed the extra wire (12V always) from the long stud in the middle of the ignition switch for the Pertronix unit.
2. Removed starter cable and turned key to run.
3. Battery has 13.90V.
4. Ground to soleniod 'S' 9V.
5. Ground to soleniod 'I' 12V. Should this voltage be 9V, not 12V?
6. Turn key off.
7. Both 'S' and 'I' wires from the soleniod to the firewall have continuity.
8. Disconnected pink wire from red/green at ignition switch.
9. Ohmed out pink wire from disconnect at ignition switch to firewall inside the car to be 8.6 ohms.
10. Have continuity on both sides of the neutral safety switch in 'Park' and 'Neutral'.
11. Turned key to run. Have 12V where red/green wire plugs into the pink resistance wire at ignition switch.
12. Have 9V on both + and - sides of the coil.
13. Disconnected the pigtail at the voltage regulator. Still measure 9V on both + and - sides of the coil.

Please help if you can, I'm frustrated,
Guy

**Guy Monjure** · February 13th, 2012, 02:19 PM

Verification from last post:
I believe the 8.6 ohms in the pink resistance wire is from the pin side of the voltage light probe through it's circuit to my ohm meter. Still the pink wire has continuity and does have the expected voltages.

I'm beginning to think my altenator tiptall tie-in to the voltage regulator may be the issue. Thats the only wiring I altered in the whole engine bay project besides the placement of the distributor. With that vacuum modual I can't see how it could be 180 degrees out.

I hope you guys projects are going better than mine,
Guy

**Luva65wagon** · February 13th, 2012, 02:42 PM

Guy,

I'm doing some research for you right now (in between other things), but it is easy to pull the connector to the ALT at the regulator or the big wire going to it from the starter solenoid. If you are concerned that is the case (I can't see how, yet) then worry about that after you get the car started.

Really, you should be able to bypass the rest of the car this way:

1) connect a jumper wire from the + of the battery to the + of the coil.
2) connect another wire from the + of the battery to the red-wire of the Pertronix.
3) Black wire from the Pertronix to the "-" of the coil.
4) All other small wires removed from the starter solenoid for this test.
5) Use a remote starter switch or a screw-driver and connect the + BAT side of the starter solenoid to the closest small terminal on the soleniod (should be "S") to turn the motor over.

Juice flows to the coil and Pertronix - car starts. If it doesn't then bad coil or Pertronix unit. This bypasses all other sources of mistake - apart from a mis-oriented distributor rotor (see 180 degree comment in the below thread). If it starts, reintroduce one thing at a time until it doesn't start.

Unless it is an aftermarket coil, they don't all like seeing 12 volts for long, but it won't be a problem to test this out. In fact if you went with a Pertronix coil, you could get away from the entire 9 volt anything.

Here is a link for testing the resistance of a coil to make sure it is still good.

http://www.pertronix.com/support/tips/default.aspx#a2

More to come...

**Luva65wagon** · February 13th, 2012, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Guy Monjure

...the placement of the distributor. With that vacuum modual I can't see how it could be 180 degrees out.

It's easy to get a distributor 180 out. The external part of the distributor plays no part on that. It's the rotor/shaft and where it is pointing that has potential for being in the wrong place relative to the body of the distributor, which keys the cap. You can pull up the distributor body to clear the gear in the motor, rotate it anywhere, and plop the distributor back into the hole. It will all look the same out where you see everything, but it will not run.

**Guy Monjure** · February 13th, 2012, 03:40 PM

Thanks Roger!

I'm going to print your last two post and read them about 3 times. I'll need some time to think all this through.

I appriciate your friendship,
Guy