Distributor Advance

[ew1usnr]

I have a 1960 - 1962 service manual with a 1963 V-8 supplement. The manual provides vacuum advance specifications for a six cylinder but not for an eight.

Someone might have this information in a 1964 service manual. I am looking for the mechanical and vacuum advance ranges for the distributors that would have gone with a 1963 Falcon manual transmission and an Ford-O-Matic transmission.

I found this information for a 1965 Mustang, but it applies to a 289 with a three-speed automatic.

Advance characteristics.JPG

See: http://www.mustang-s.com/years/1965/...stributors.htm

Is there any similar site for 1963 Falcon distributors?

I want to know how the timing advance for an automatic differed from one for a manual. Now you can get a universal distributor for "Ford 221, 260, 289, 302", but back in the day the distributors were specific to the transmission type.

Thanks, Dennis.

Summary: "For a 289 V-8 with a three-speed automatic, the centrifugal weights function through the 450 - 2000 RPM range (10 - 44 mph) and add 12 degrees of advance. The vacuum advance functions at higher engine speeds for additional advance and operates from 8 to 14 inches of mercury vacuum to provide 11 degrees of advance. The combined total equals 23 degrees of advance."

[ew1usnr]

I am looking for the mechanical and vacuum advance ranges for the distributors ...

After reading about the centrifugal and vacuum advances, I realized that I had never tested the vacuum advance canister on my distributor.

After dinner tonight, I slipped a two-foot long piece of tubing onto the nipple of the distributor vacuum advance and sucked on it. I could not pull any air through it and that indicates that it is working. Yay!

Happy Banana Dance:

If I did need to replace the vacuum advance on a 1963 260 V-8 with a Ford-O-Matic, which of these units would be the most correct replacement?

Vacuum Advance.jpg

See: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/se...con&vi=1334786

All three of the ones on the right with nipples are listed as being compatible with my 260. But, ... they reference some distributor numbers. Which number would be most likely to match my distributor?

Thanks, Dennis.

[Luva65wagon]

Dennis,

I have a lot of books and such, but have not been at home other than to sleep for about 2 weeks straight. If I didn't force myself to take a break at work once in a while, I'd never post anything. I plan to be home on Friday ( ) so I will look a bit for you re: these specs.

As for the correct one of the replacement advances, they are not indicating what the differences are between them, other than the model numbers of the distributors. Your distributor should have a stamped Ford model number (something C2xx or C3xx), so perhaps you can find that.

Sucking on the hose doesn't mean it is doing the job. Only means the diaphragm doesn't have a hole in it. You need to pull the cap and watch the plate move as well. Same holds true with the mechanical advance. And you don't know whether someone hasn't swapped out springs to change the curve. If the point plate is moving easily by hand as well, chances are the other bits will at least move it too - but it's good to check it both visually and watching the timing marks with the engine running.

[ew1usnr]

Hello, Roger.

As for the correct one of the replacement advances, they are not indicating what the differences are between them, other than the model numbers of the distributors. Your distributor should have a stamped Ford model number (something C2xx or C3xx), so perhaps you can find that.

I will take a look. Finding that number would allow me to match a vacuum advance to the distributor that I have. The distributor that is on the car now might not necessarily be the same as the distributor that originally came with the car.

Distributor.JPG

Sucking on the hose doesn't mean it is doing the job. Only means the diaphragm doesn't have a hole in it. You need to pull the cap and watch the plate move as well. Same holds true with the mechanical advance. And you don't know whether someone hasn't swapped out springs to change the curve. If the point plate is moving easily by hand as well, chances are the other bits will at least move it too - but it's good to check it both visually and watching the timing marks with the engine running.

Can a person suck hard enough to visually move the breaker plate?
I can move the plate with my fingers, but it seems to have some spring tension.
I have a transparent distributor cap. Should I be able to see the vacuum advance move the breaker plate if my wife revs the engine above 2000 RPM?

Distributor Cap s-l1600.jpg

Thanks, Dennis.

[Luva65wagon]

Can a person suck hard enough to visually move the breaker plate?
...

Should I be able to see the vacuum advance move the breaker plate if my wife revs the engine above 2000 RPM?

You may not be able to suck on it with your mouth hard enough to see full advance, but it should move the plate until the mechanical advance springs make it too hard to. There is also a spring, IIRC, in the vacuum advance can, so it varies the curve it can apply.

Also, with the timing light hooked up, but with NO vacuum advance connected, rev the motor up smoothly and watch the timing marks. This will show the RPM-based mechanical advance curve.

You could hook up a timing light and start the car. With the engine idling hook up and remove the vacuum line. You should see some movement of the timing mark. You can also tap into a full vacuum port somewhere, or use a vacuum hand pump, and pull a full vacuum on the distributor. See how much it will move the timing mark

FWIW I wouldn't expect the advance curves to vary much from the information you posted originally in the tables above. Over 50 years you have no idea if things haven't changed, as you say, so it's a pretty good starting place to see how it differs from the data you have. Keep in mind as well that there is a significant difference in the fuels we have today and what was good (in regard to advance curves) in 1963 may not be ideal using our ethanol-infused lead-less 87 octane fuels.

[ew1usnr]

You may not be able to suck on it with your mouth hard enough to see full advance, but it should move the plate until the mechanical advance springs make it too hard to. There is also a spring, IIRC, in the vacuum advance can, so it varies the curve it can apply.

Hello, Roger.

I couldn't budge it by sucking on it. I can swing the plate with a screwdriver tip, but it had a definite spring tension on it.

Also, with the timing light hooked up, but with NO vacuum advance connected, rev the motor up smoothly and watch the timing marks. This will show the RPM-based mechanical advance curve.

I have a timing light somewhere and will have to try to find it. It would be an interesting weekend project to examine the timing at different RPMs.

Keep in mind as well that there is a significant difference in the fuels we have today and what was good (in regard to advance curves) in 1963 may not be ideal using our ethanol-infused lead-less 87 octane fuels.

Good point. The engine did seem to run smoother and more responsively when I tried 89 octane ethanol-free gas.

I thought that it was cool how the specifications for an automatic said that the mechanical advance started at 450 RPM. That just happens to also be the correct idle speed. It makes sense that you would want the least advance when the car is at idle. Less advance lets you hold flaming gasoline in the cylinders for the shortest time. That helps to keep the car cooler when it is not moving and has the least air flow through the radiator. You can safely advance the spark and increase engine heat when the car is moving and is better dissipating heat from the radiator. The mechanical advance hits its maximum at 2000 RPM which is about 44 mph.