63 Futura 'Vert, It Begins With Many Questions

[Millennial Falcon]

Major change to my plans, sort of.
My father in-law has decided to gift me a very nice 302 with about $5k into it. No miles, balanced, blueprinted, ported, and lots more. Kinda hard to pass that up, though far more horsepower than I need. I must tread carefully.
Now i plan to sell my fox-body Mustang and fully fund a V8 swap for the Falcon! Same goals though, reliability and safety.


I have priced out most of the steering and suspension parts for this new off FalconParts.com Here is what i have so far:
-‘65 V8 Left and Right Spindles....................................$400 (ouch!)
-‘63 Adjustable Strut Rods 2ea.....................................$118 (optional, UCA Kit)
-‘63 Strut Rod Bushings.......................................... .....$50
-‘65 V8 Under Engine Brace..........................................$70
-‘65 V8 Manual Steering Center Link.............................$140
-‘65 V8 Inner & Outer Tie Rod Ends 2ea.........................$102
-‘65 V8 Tie Rod Adjusting Sleeves 2ea.............................$19
-‘65 V8 Idler Arm............................................... ..........$48
-‘65 V8 Idler Arm Bracket........................................... ...$35
-‘65 V8 Pitman Arm............................................... .......$68
-‘65 V8 Front Axle Nut Kits 2ea......................................$22
-‘65 V8 Right & Left Engine Mount Rubber........................$32
-‘65 V8 Intermediate Mount Brackets..............................$50
-65 V8 Aluminum Frame Mounts...................................$140
-Front Coil Spring Insulators (mine are absolutely shot)....$10


The Scarebird setup will be upgraded to the 15” wheel disc brakes to go on the V8 hubs:
-Scarebird PNY M30 Kit............................................... .$177
-‘68 Mustang Rotors............................................ ........$206
-‘68 Mustang Bearings Inner & Outer..............................$54
-‘68 Mustang Front Wheel Seals 2ea...............................$15
-‘79 Eldorado Left & Right Brake Hoses...........................$40
-‘90 Celebrity Left & Right Calipers.................................$60
-‘90 Celebrity Brake Pads.............................................. $30
-‘90 Celebrity Banjo Bolts Front 2ea...............................$15
-‘74 Maverick Master Cylinder........................................$7 9


Optional (sketchy things I’m not sure of):
-‘65 V8 Monte Carlo Bar............................................... ..$60
I may need to see after the motor swap if this will fit.
-SPC Performance Adjustable Upper Control Arm 94215 w/Adjustable Strut Rod 2ea.........................................$590
These are listed as fitting a ‘65 Falcon, I believe this is only because of the strut rods and should work with the rest of the ‘65 steering components on a ‘63. I cant find any reviews or evidence of these parts on a Falcon, seems like a roll of the dice.
I would like to think this is a nice upgrade if I replace the control arms.


Which brings me to my new quandary, should I replace my control arms? The cost of new bushings and ball joints seem to make new but cheap control arms the more cost effective method. It also seems pointless to have all these new components and not refresh them. However, I am concerned about the quality of these affordable control arms. Anyone have some experiences with the new (likely Chinese made) stuff? Should I just buy the expensive name-brand stuff or purchase some adjustable units for roughly the same price?


I’m joining this group to hear the advice of my peers, so please, let me hear all criticism and recommendations. Thanks guys! (Once I get my national club membership confirmed you all will have a very annoying little bro as a new paid member)

[Luva65wagon]

That's a big list when you're having to replace everything, but other than shopping around to maybe get the best prices - you gotta do what you gotta do. Been there done that.

As for the questionable things, I've got aftermarket Monte Carlo bar as well as export braces (shock tower braces) on mine and the underbelly bar. Stiffened it up well since I don't have torque boxes, which I "think" 63 hardtops and convertibles got whether a 6 or V8 was installed. Also installed subframe connectors while I was at it. Not sure how the convertible underbody accommodates those. I know you're supposed to have a strength plate between the left and right rear frame rails due to a lack of roof (keeps the car from folding in the middle), but I think it's clear from front to rear outboard of these for subframe connectors.

You can replace bushings and ball joints, but if you get the pricier ones, they're pretty good. I got a set of upper and lower in a massive "selling all my Falcon parts" purchase I did on Craigslist when I was building the Ranchero, but I had to replace them when the rubber in all of the ball joints split out in short order. Best guess is they had been sitting around a long time and the rubber rotted. I bought my new set from National Parts Depot for a 65 Mustang, since everything is the same except the center-link - and Mustang vendors pricing is much better than Falcon parts vendors for the same parts... usually. Far more competition. At the time I did, I also replaced the spring perches with a higher-end version that wasn't the roller bearing type, but wasn't the fixed position type that are most common. One of the most common causes of the "Ford squeak" comes from the spring perch.

A club member out there (shows up every other year or so...) had some adjustable struts he was trying to sell. Not sure why he removed them at this point. Have not looked at the adjustable upper control arms, but will just to keep myself aware.

[Ilvmygt]

Have you considered the Mustang 2 front suspension? TCI's is about 3K. You remove the existing suspension and weld on a new substructure, components including disk brakes, rack and pinion steering (including power rack) and sway bar. There is significant amount of work but modernizes it.

[Jeff W]

Hi Matt, Redfaken and I recently finished installing inexpensive, no name upper and lower control arms in my 63. I haven’t driven more than ten miles yet (waiting for a shop alignment) but the quality looked fine. My only observation was the paint was very thin and will probably need some attention if it starts to surface rust in the future. I could have prepped and repainted before installation but avoided the “Roger Syndrome” (Scope Creep ... While I’m at it)

I bought them from a club member that went a new direction so I can’t list a source or brand to help.

We did perform the zero cost Arning Drop. Other members have noticed a handling improvement with this. I have Pbrowns template and drill bit, I’m sure he would be willing to loan out if you want to go that direction.

[Luva65wagon]

i could have prepped and repainted before installation but avoided the “roger syndrome” (scope creep ... While i’m at it)

AKA "The Curse of WIAI™"

[dhbfaster]

How's the progress Matt?

[Millennial Falcon]

Well, my father in-law is a big fan of the Mustang II swap, and he is starting to sway me. I’m a bit concerned about the welding that needs to be accomplished, its quite the undertaking compared to the straight V8 parts swap. But damn, the benefits are huge when coupled with about 400hp.

Right now I’m going to start on assembling the motor and see how that goes. 33593077-FD90-4FAA-8805-F7ACAD9ADB81.jpg
Any major work will wait until fall starts, and I still need to get the Mustang sold.

I might not get much out of the Falcon this summer though, there is an oil leak getting progressively worse that I’m pretty sure is the rear main seal.

[Luva65wagon]

You know, if I had it to do again - and had the extra funds I usta have (building a garage was expensive) - and knew then where it was heading with a 347/T5 - I'd do something to make more space in there. I've done a lot of finessing to try and get things to clear, but the header clearance is really much tighter now than it [even] was with the 289, and they are the same size block, just different heads. So think long and hard. You have a half-dozen kit choices and seems everyone has their favorite. I've got no real opinion since I can't go there, so have not done the research.

Post pics of the engine build as you go!

[SmithKid]

Kinda in Roger's position regarding funds and time, and pretty sure that if I could turn back the clock, I'd have opted for a Must II type front end too (which would have improved both ride and handling). Back then, I added new components (control arms, rod ends, orig style wrecking yard discs from a club member, etc.) and added original style PS that I've never been real happy with. Now it's WAY too late and I'm not going there again.

[Ilvmygt]

Matt, I am in Port Orchard you are more then welcome to come over to see what progress I have made on my Falcon. I am installing a Mustang II front end and a 4 link rear end. PM me if you are interested.
Frank

[Millennial Falcon]

Sorry to be away from the forums for so long. The project is still very much happening, but family events have taken precedent.

I lost my grandmother recently. She was one of those rare people that embodied the concept of unconditional love. I will never forget her knowing smile and straight forward honest response that always belied her true age. She taught me so much about life while taking me berry picking and baking pies. I can still clearly remember her teaching me to drive in her 90s Honda Civic after I had scared my mother out of the task. I loved my grandmother very much and I thank everyone for their understanding

The reason I bring this up is that she left me one final gift. It’s safe to say now that I have no financial restrictions on my project anymore, no reason to hold back. I’d never thought in my life I’d be so moved by money, but here I am.

This falcon will be for grandma.

Cheers mates, here’s to the memory of all those who made us who we are.

[Luva65wagon]

Sorry for your loss there Matt. I know it is hard... regardless of the occasional inheritance of substance.

I was just having a conversation this weekend at an estate sale company (store front business in Kirkland) prompted from having found an old Plymouth hub cab just like the ones my dad had on his '53 Plymouth Cranbrook. He so badly wanted me to take that car and save it. He'd parked it 20 years before asking me to take it, but (though I looked into it) concluded it would have been a horrific task to restore. They're not exactly packing the junk yards with these. He understood and ended up giving it to a friend of a friend who said he'd bring it back to life. He just didn't get the memo it would be turned into a hot rod. My dad wasn't happy about that. My mom, on the other hand has already signed her 1980 Mercury Capri RS over to me - long before she was no longer able to drive it, but I struggle to figure out what/how/when I will do with it. It's in awesome shape, sitting in her garage, but it's not a highly sought after vehicle. I've been force of late, due to her nearing the need of outside help, to really start thinking about what to do with it when she has to move. Anyway, back to the conversation... We were both lamenting, this store owner and I, why neither of our parents had a 1969 Mach 1 or something to hand down. I offered to her the upside in my case, though; I lost my grand parents a long time ago and my father in the past few years, my mother is still hanging in there. Though none of them had the wherewithal to amass wealth worth passing down, I am who I am today with traits and skills I learned from both of my parents. All my mechanical/electronic/musical skills and talents from my father and artistic/writing abilities from my mother. Both excelled in these, and I'm thankful I have a mere fraction of their talents and abilities.

[Millennial Falcon]

I'm back!
I had a whole lot of life stuff going on, something about a pandemic, and now i emerge from my hibernation ready to do stuff.

So, updates on the project.
I have the Scarebird 4-lug kit with the custom hubs mocked up on the car. I say mocked up and not installed because of some interesting issues found.
The spindle fasteners Scarebird intended me to reuse, at least on my car, are not standard bolts. The head is raw, containing only one flat. There isnt a socket in the world that would turn those things, so i had to buy new. The only options for matching those fine thread fasteners that i found are grade 5. Anyone feel that is a bad idea, should i shoot for grade 8 coarse thread?
Also, and this one really gets me, the lug nuts are removing paint from the ID of my new wheels. The lug nuts and wheels fit fine together when not on the hub. I have also tested my wheels on the original hubs and the rears and found no clearance issues at all installing the lug nuts.
I could be totally screwed up with this, but i really think the Scarebird bolt pattern may be off by a small amount. I plan to disassemble the entire setup and take my hubs to work in order to properly measure the DBC on those things, I don't really know what i hope to find.
Other than that stuff i have all new stainless brake lines going in, a complete rebuild of the rear drums started (have to fix grooves on backing plate), and a new disc/drum MC with combo prop valve. I am curious though what most of you round-body guys did for the brake light switch.

Also, I can add a new set to the list of off the shelf wheels that can be installed directly on our 4-lug vehicles with no modifications! Bonus, they also clear the calipers for the Scarebird setup. They are the Legendary Scott Drake Magnum 400's in 15x6in. I wrapped them in 195 60R15 BF Goodrich Radial T/A's with white letters facing obviously, and they look amazing. The extra meat is all outboard on these, so no clearance issues with suspension components. They sport about 1 inch of clearance with the rear fender not rolled. I will post some pics when its all done and i can clean the blue crap off the tires.

I am eagerly awaiting news from Matt Cox of Vintage Inlines about when i can purchase the new aluminum inline head which should start production any day now. I will hold off on all other purchases for the entire 200 rebuild till i have that head in hand. If anyone is interested in the precise numbers i plan to achieve and the machine work to be done let me know.

Im getting very close to pulling the trigger on the suspension components and it should be fun! I am leaning heavily toward the Coilover kit and export bar from Street or Track for the front, and the Bilstein shocks they carry for the rear. Ill source the leaf springs from GeneralSpringKC because the prices through Eaton, my gawd! I will supplement all that fancy stuff with Hellwig 1.125 Front and 0.75 Rear sway bars.
One major issue i have come to, and i'm sure some of you have already guessed it, is the leaf spring front shackle. If you remember, my 63 is a convertible. That means i won the rare parts lottery and have near zero options. It sounds like the best i can do is pull the leaf springs off my Falcon and hope for the best with their condition.
Falconparts.com was less than helpful to a loyal customer so now i prostrate myself before my peers and beg. Does anyone know what i should do? Does anyone know what the differences that make it unique even are?

*Edit- Guess i forgot to mention the biggest development, the V8 is a big no go, turns out my Father-in-law does not know what he is doing building engines. Im going to CORRECTLY build an awesome 200 and never look back!

[Luva65wagon]

Matt, missed this. Using my phone to reply is tough, and lately I'm a bit hobbled with a sprained ankle to get downstairs to the computer.

Having done the first-ever Scarebird swap on the same car, ironically, that got the VI head, I know it well. Would laugh to find out whether they are still using photos of my hands and that car in their instructions. LOL. Anyway, the bolts you refer to are standard spindle bolts. They were intended, when new, to butt up against the grease shield and with an impact draw up tight with no need for a wrench or socket to hold the head. Getting them apart 50 years later, not so easy. They are Grade 8 and your replacement bolts should be as well. I don't know of any reason you can't get standard 3/8-24 grade 8 bolts and the correct style lock nuts. Tacoma Screw should have them. I've bought these from them before.

Kind of lost you regarding the lug nut paint issue. Maybe you'll figure it out. Pictures help.

I sort of like the 65 Falcon brake light, but it's a pain to add. The easiest switch to use is a 70's F100 switch and mount it by removing the rebound bumper stop up under the dash.

What is the rear leaf issue exactly? I've worked on a couple, but not aware the issue here.

Sounds like a pretty impressive list of to-dos. Will be fun to watch as you proceed.

[Millennial Falcon]

What is the rear leaf issue exactly? I've worked on a couple, but not aware the issue here.

Everywhere i have shopped so far has not had the front shackle to the leaf springs for specifically 63 convertible. Ive searched the issue on several forums and not found much helpful info. My research really is limited to sellers websites unfortunately, but they all seem adamant that the standard shackle will not work for the convertible, and the shackle for the heavy duty springs is not suitable. Also, i say shackle but its really just a bolt, fancy washer, and bushings.

Some leaf spring sellers even show a lower spring rate for the convertible leafs even though they look the same as the 6 leaf heavy duty springs for the ranchero. Hard to see Ford making so many variations of that part but who knows. It has been quite frustrating trying to find answers.

I should finish the Scarebird install and the rear drums this weekend if all goes well. I expect the new plumbing to be a long and painful experience. Should be fun!