Rainier Falcons > The FalconForum  

Go Back   Rainier Falcons > The FalconForum > General Forums > Chit Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-26-2014, 02:25 PM
MacDee's Avatar
MacDee MacDee is offline
Paid Chapter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 443
Blog Entries: 8
Freddie's Back on the Road!

Freddie is BACK ON THE ROAD!

A summary for those new to the forum...
I had a friend build a hopped up 200 to replace the tired old 170 that was in my '63 hardtop (Freddie). The Club helped me install the engine... in April 2010. I could not get the engine to run properly, but, again with help from the Club, we figured out what it's primary issue was (low vacuum) and got her running decently. Except... I could never get the lifter noise to go away.
Until...
Last June, I was driving her to a show in Bothell (about 10 miles from home) when all of a sudden there was a crescendo of bad noises coming from the engine with a corresponding degradation in performance. I was able to nurse it off into a parking lot and called AAA.
I took her (had her hauled...) to Long's Car Care Center in Woodinville, where it was discovered I had "wiped" the cam. Randy Long showed me some of the bits from the engine after it was torn down. One lifter had its bottom completely ground away! It was just a hollow tube! Because of all the shavings throughout the engine, it needed a complete rebuild.
So Freddie has been in Randy's shop since early July until just this morning, when I picked her up. She runs BETTER THAN EVER!!
Thanks to the PROFESSIONALS.

It has been an expensive lesson, but a lesson none the less!

The engine, as I said, is a 200. It has a Classic Inlines aluminum head with a 390 cfm Holley four-barrel, headers, and it had "way too much cam". We had used a Clay Smith 274-degree cam. It was way too much cam, for sure, but the destructive part was that it also had "way too much" valve spring! I had ordered springs with dampers from Classic Inlines: 180 pounds open, but was sent the hell-for-bent dual springs with 260 pounds open. Okay, I got more that I paid for... so we used 'em!
Simply put, I learned you really shouldn't put that much force on a flat-tappet cam!

This new build uses a more conservative 264-degree cam, and softer springs. She's now +.060 on the cylinder bores, with all new bearings, and a fresh balance. The other main thing I learned is that you cannot assume the pin holes at the front of the cam are properly located. They ended up needing to install the cam one tooth off to get it timed correctly! With an aftermarket cam, you can't just line up the marks and go!

So, now that she's back in the game, I'll try to be a little more active in the Club/Forum. It's been four years of hell, but the silver lining is starting to show....
__________________
Gary MacDonald
ROGER's...
'63 Hardtop
Scarebird front discs
200 w/ CI alum head
C4
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-26-2014, 07:03 PM
redfalken's Avatar
redfalken redfalken is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,612
Blog Entries: 5
That's really great news Gary! And it's always nice to be able to put your finger on the problem, especially after the months and months of trying to figure out what was going on.

Now it's time to have fun!
__________________

Kenny Likins
Ballard, Seattle, WA
www.redfalken.com

`62 Tudor Sedan (`69 200, C4, 8-inch 4-lug 2.79 rearend, Duraspark II, MSD, Weber 32/36 DGEV)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-28-2014, 06:35 AM
ew1usnr's Avatar
ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
Senior Forum User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 811
Freddie's Back!

Hello, Gary.

What do you estimate the horsepower to be for your modified 200?

Dennis.

falconspeedshopdiswhite_beer_label.jpg
__________________
Dennis Pierson
Tampa, FL
"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-28-2014, 12:18 PM
Jeff W's Avatar
Jeff W Jeff W is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,288
Blog Entries: 3
That is the best news I have heard all week.

Now that it's back on the road and reliable, what are you going to change/upgrade next?

__________________

Jeff Watson
Seattle, WA
'63 Tudor Wagon (170 - 3 spd.)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-28-2014, 01:04 PM
MacDee's Avatar
MacDee MacDee is offline
Paid Chapter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 443
Blog Entries: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ew1usnr View Post
Hello, Gary.

What do you estimate the horsepower to be for your modified 200?

Dennis.

Attachment 4455
I had done a bunch of "runs" on Desktop Dyno way back when I was trying to decide what to do. With the 264-degree cam, I was getting numbers in the low-to-mid 200's. Of course, I really think numbers from Desktop Dyno tend to be optimistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff W View Post
That is the best news I have heard all week.

Now that it's back on the road and reliable, what are you going to change/upgrade next?

Where do I begin?
I've got a new shift collar ready to go in. Is that what's needed to restore the reverse lockout? The shift linkage is really marginal. She needs new door seals... A GOOD exhaust system... Wife wants shoulder belts. That will be a challenge with a hardtop....
__________________
Gary MacDonald
ROGER's...
'63 Hardtop
Scarebird front discs
200 w/ CI alum head
C4
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-28-2014, 07:22 PM
Jeff W's Avatar
Jeff W Jeff W is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,288
Blog Entries: 3
Is the shift collar sloppy? I think the dropping into reverse issue is more related to a worn detent plate (didn't you put in a new one when converting to the C4?) or a worn tab on the shifter arm that goes into the detent plate.

I have seen parts to install shoulder belts in Mustang convertibles. I think that would give you some installation ideas.
__________________

Jeff Watson
Seattle, WA
'63 Tudor Wagon (170 - 3 spd.)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-30-2014, 09:13 AM
MacDee's Avatar
MacDee MacDee is offline
Paid Chapter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 443
Blog Entries: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff W View Post
Is the shift collar sloppy? I think the dropping into reverse issue is more related to a worn detent plate (didn't you put in a new one when converting to the C4?) or a worn tab on the shifter arm that goes into the detent plate.
I did put in a new detent plate at swap day. But we discovered when we hooked up the linkage that there is absolutely no detent action in the column itself! My shift collar is shot, that's why I was (am?) suspecting it is the culprit. Perhaps I should get a new shifter arm too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff W View Post
I have seen parts to install shoulder belts in Mustang convertibles. I think that would give you some installation ideas.
I have seen those. In fact, I purchased a set of continuous belts so I could do just that. I got cold feet when the straps of the set I purchased had a much darker blue than my interior, and they appear to be sewn such that the buckles would be upside down once hooked. I also don't like that the belt comes over your shoulder from low/behind. I know this would be uncomfortable, and I think it is also unsafe. Contemporary convertibles utilize a loop adjacent to the head rest that routes the belt as if it were attached at a higher location. I've considered using late-model Mustang convertible seats, but I REALLY LIKE the looks of my stock factory buckets, and don't want to change that.
I swear I once saw an early Mustang at a show that had stock seats but used some sort of aftermarket head rests with shoulder belt loops adapted into them. I've looked on the internet and found head rests that adapt to stock Mustang seats, but haven't found anything that incorporates a shoulder belt loop.
I'm in a quandary....
__________________
Gary MacDonald
ROGER's...
'63 Hardtop
Scarebird front discs
200 w/ CI alum head
C4

Last edited by MacDee; 01-02-2015 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Grammar correction
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-30-2014, 09:52 AM
dhbfaster dhbfaster is offline
Senior Forum User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Federal Way
Posts: 767
Here's one idea I happened to run across for the shoulder belt, for a mustang...it uses a part from a ford van.

http://68vert.blogspot.com/2013/05/s...der-belts.html
__________________
Don Bartlett
Federal Way, WA
61 Four Door Sedan
144-6, 3 on the tree


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-30-2014, 11:22 AM
BillP 98201's Avatar
BillP 98201 BillP 98201 is offline
Paid Chapter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marysville
Posts: 443
Glad to hear she's back on the road! I recently met a man who wants to put a 200 in his Ranchero. I will show him your story
__________________
Bill Proctor .. 1963 Falcon Sprint. Looking forward to learning new things.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-02-2015, 12:55 PM
MacDee's Avatar
MacDee MacDee is offline
Paid Chapter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 443
Blog Entries: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhbfaster View Post
Here's one idea I happened to run across for the shoulder belt, for a mustang...it uses a part from a ford van.
Nice setup! Of course, my hardtop doesn't have a convertible top well to provide the attach point used in that installation. I still think I'll need a loop on the seat or attached to the interior quarter panel to position the loop above the sill line (sort of a pseudo-B pillar).
__________________
Gary MacDonald
ROGER's...
'63 Hardtop
Scarebird front discs
200 w/ CI alum head
C4
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-06-2015, 12:31 PM
MacDee's Avatar
MacDee MacDee is offline
Paid Chapter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 443
Blog Entries: 8
Acoustic Beat

We took Freddie out for some "speedometer calibration" runs the other day. You know, drive past one of those "Your Speed Is" signs and compare to what your speedometer says. The speedometer is way off since swapping in the C4. We have a pretty accurate chart now that we'll use until I get around to swapping in a different speed-o drive gear.
We then just went for a drive along a higher speed highway. At about 45 [actual] mph, she seems to begin to produce an acoustic "beat", and it seems to get worse as speed increases. It's really annoying, and it didn't do this BEFORE the rebuild! I'm wondering if she maybe lost a wheel weight....
Any ideas?
__________________
Gary MacDonald
ROGER's...
'63 Hardtop
Scarebird front discs
200 w/ CI alum head
C4
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-06-2015, 02:15 PM
Jeff W's Avatar
Jeff W Jeff W is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,288
Blog Entries: 3
Did your rebuild guy spin balance the rotating assembly?

Did the shop hack jack up the car using the drive shaft as a lifting point?

Did they forget to reinstall or tighten the transmission mount?

Hope it is something easy. You deserve a break today
__________________

Jeff Watson
Seattle, WA
'63 Tudor Wagon (170 - 3 spd.)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-12-2015, 03:40 PM
MacDee's Avatar
MacDee MacDee is offline
Paid Chapter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 443
Blog Entries: 8
So we got the wheels balanced at the Goodyear place in Woodinville yesterday. We took her for a "high-speed" drive again this afternoon, and, alas, the "beat" is still there. It's very prevalent at about 50 mph, but here's a hint: The FREQUENCY of the "beat" is dependent on LOAD, not speed. The frequency increases significantly when we go up a slight grade or accelerate, and slows down to almost going away while coasting downhill.
Could it be something to do with the torque converter? The relative speeds of the turbine and stator in the torque converter vary by load, don't they?

Oh, and, yes, the engine was fully balanced. The shop, I'm sure, did not jack the car up on the drive shaft!
Forget to tighten the transmission mount? Hmmm... Or the flex plate?
__________________
Gary MacDonald
ROGER's...
'63 Hardtop
Scarebird front discs
200 w/ CI alum head
C4

Last edited by MacDee; 01-12-2015 at 03:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-12-2015, 04:23 PM
Luva65wagon's Avatar
Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
Chapter President
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lynnwood
Posts: 4,265
Blog Entries: 4
Same U-joints? Maybe all this new "Saturn 5" launch torque has made one of them fail? They would vary with load as well.

What's the frequency?
__________________
Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:26 PM
Jeff W's Avatar
Jeff W Jeff W is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,288
Blog Entries: 3
I carefully read your posts again and can't see the specifics...

Do you FEEL anything or is it strictly "noise". I know it's hard to tell the difference sometimes.
__________________

Jeff Watson
Seattle, WA
'63 Tudor Wagon (170 - 3 spd.)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Freddie's Transplant MacDee Tech Talk 329 08-18-2014 03:38 PM
On the Road Again! ew1usnr Chit Chat 4 02-01-2014 05:55 PM
Road trip to see the KB-50J Superfortress ew1usnr Chit Chat 2 08-04-2013 10:06 AM
Road trip to Sarasota. ew1usnr Chit Chat 2 02-25-2013 08:30 PM
Freddie's Tech-Day (May 22nd and 23rd) pbrown Events and Announcements 20 06-01-2010 10:27 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.