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Old 12-16-2015, 04:25 PM
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Old Car Safety

I am pretty sure most of you saw this when it come out in 2009, but it is good information on how far the automotive industry as advanced in regard to auto safety. Larry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:48 PM
Wilbur Wilbur is offline
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I've seen this before, and it's scary to think I'm driving a Falcon with a solid steering shaft, no side impact protection, etc.

You know what though? I used to drive a motorcycle, now I have four wheels and some metal in front and behind me. :-)

You know what else? Cars are smarter and people are "stupider" these days, so we've likely made no progress, one step forwards, two steps backwards. Or zeroed out.

I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the 60's and 70's (but I'm only 21 years old), and NEVER EVER did we see anyone driving while typing out a letter on a typewriter.

I imagine if I cop back then saw the absurdity of somebody typewriting while driving they would have just executed the culprit on the spot.

Today, it seems everybody is "typewriting" while driving and the keyboard is a fraction of the size of the a typewriter's keyboard, and this driving while typing kills nearly 4000 Americans every year according to the Center for Disease Control.

A few months ago in the parking lot of a Value Village, I saw a black car speeding through the parking lot, the driver did not have her hands on the steering wheel at all when I looked inside the car, both hands on a tech device, her head was facing DOWN looking at the screen. Unbelievable, but true story.

Cars are smarter, drivers are "stupider".

I knew an old long haul trucker, he told me that he knew other truckers who traveled over one million miles with zero accidents during their careers.

I drive my Falcon like it was a motorcycle, meaning I'm extremely vulnerable in the Falcon and I drive appropriately. I keep my safe zones, following distances, I drive within the limits of the car, I pay attention to what's a thousand feet ahead of me, I pay attention to everything, as if my life depends on it, because it does.

I will upgrade the Falcon one day, a roll cage with side impact protection, a non explosive gas tank, a jointed steering shaft, shoulder harness, and then maybe I'll be safer.

The bottom line regarding safety, though, boils down to the driver of the vehicle. They will never be able to pack enough "smart" into a car to counter the incredible "stupid" I see on our roads. As the old saying goes, if you manufacture something to be fool proof, they'll just build a better fool! (Insert laughing emoticon here :-) )

Despite all these safer cars, we are killing over 40,000 Americans on our roadways every year, nearly 4000 die from texting while driving, or tech use and driving.

10,000 die yearly in America from drinking and driving, nearly 1100 of those killed are children, every year, yes, 1100 children slaughtered on our roadways every year because somebody(s) decided to drive while sloshed.

Be safe out there, and as we said in the army, "stay alert, stay alive." Amen.

Oh, one more anecdote, story. Remember the bad winter storm five or so years ago? I recall seeing this late model vehicle, computers, airbags, crush zones, seat belts, four wheel drive, anti-lock brakes, the works, it sat at the bottom of a very steep ice covered hill, crashed. The driver tried to go down an extremely steep ICE COVERED road on that hill. It is the hill that goes up from Lake City Way, up 115th Street for those who know it.

There were many OTHER cars that attempted to drive down that ice covered road on that hill. There ain't enough tech and engineering in the world for people like that.

The good news... cars are safer. Now we need to work on safer people. :-)

Last edited by Wilbur; 12-17-2015 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:15 PM
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Old Car Safety

All excellent points Wilbur. We all see the drivers that do everything but drive in their cars. Just last night my wife and I followed a lady who was putting her makeup on while attempting to drive. She was all over the road, both hands off the wheel. You see them every day on every road. And, you are correct about the drunk drivers. Thanks for the input. Larry
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:01 PM
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Pretty much agree Wilbur. I think traffic is much worse now too.
I drive (have driven and will again drive) (the falcon) with the same attitude, plus assume my brakes may not work! Hopefully that gets a step better. I only plan to add lap belts + I am completely redoing the brake system and switching to a double master. Add to that...I won't put a lot of miles on it. All that said, somehow nobody ever died in my falcon after all these years and it was driven pretty hard a few of those years. On the other hand...it doesn't go that fast either.
I do understand why insurance rates go down when you pass 25yrs of age however...so:
The one area I cringe a bit on....when I see that a 16yr old (especially male) has a falcon as a "daily driver"...especially if it has some hp. Looking back at my HS days...I was a pretty aggressive and oblivious driver back then and pretty much thought I was invincible and a great driver (regardless of the 1+ ticket per year and year after year trips to "comedy club defensive driving class" to get the tickets removed.) I can remember time after time that I would see how fast I could get the car to go before my wife would look up and ask "uh...how fast are you going?" (about 125 before she would ask. West Texas and Southern New Mexico have some wide open roads.) (That was in the later 70's and early 80's.) Now today for a teenager, add probably driving more miles, the wet roads up here, cell phones, more traffic, etc...it's a lot. Then there's "the other guy" you have to worry about talking on their cell phone while smoking pot, on drugs, drinking, on smapchat, etc.... For their daily driver at least...I'd rather have my own teenager in a modern car. My 2c!
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Old 12-18-2015, 06:36 PM
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Old Car Safety

As beautiful and fun to drive as our Falcons are, they have some glaring problems that get illuminated when we drive them in todays traffic issues.

When I bought the Falcon that I am driving for my son more than 20 years ago, the traffic and driving issues were no near what they are today.

He didn't drive fast, he drove it everyday, and is a safe driver.

The concerns I see have nothing to do with how well I drive my car. It has to do with how badly the rest of society is driving their cars.

Go online and look up crashes and you will see 90 percent have to do with a driver that either isn't paying attention, is going to fast for the conditions, or driving impaired.

I have drag raced, circle raced, street raced, you name it. But nothing prepares you for what is happening on the streets of today.

The points being made are all good. If you drive from the aspect that everyone else is trying to kill you then you will probably make it out and back. But their are accidents that none of us can prevent.

I would rather my wife was driving a newer car with air bags all over the place, collapsing steering wheel, side impact protection, shoulder harnesses, collapsing frame and body components, anti-skid brakes, and any other safety improvement I can get in her car.
She was hit broadside by a guy going way to fast, ran a stop sign after other cars had already gone out from my wife's lane. There was nothing she could have done. If that would have been in my 64 Falcon she would have suffered massive injuries. In her Honda she got a bump on her knee.

Don't get me wrong. The Falcons were and are great cars. But, they can't compare in safety aspects of today. Larry
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:52 PM
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Yep...it's the other guy I worry about most. My wife and one son and I were on a hockey trip in Vancouver, BC. We had to do a lot of driving in poor conditions and challenging traffic in those days. Someone ran a light and turned right in front of us and boom...nothing I could do. We were in a late model Volvo XC90. The air bags exploded, the pyrotechnic seat belts exploded, and all the crunch zone stuff did its thing. $35,000 in damage to our car. Not a scratch on any of us. It was amazing. The others were in an old minivan and didn't fare so well. I don't think they were wearing any seat belts...so as you can imagine after I got the ambulance there they spent some time in the hospital but fortunately were all eventually ok. There is something to be said for the safety of today's cars. The next generation of cars might see that car coming and put on the brakes for me, and have no damage.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:31 PM
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I think the key point Wilbur was making is the smarter things get, the stupider people get. And to some degree that is true. I think most get lured into a false sense of security.

I've commuted more in the past few years than ever. About 60 miles a day on certain days. I tried the freeway a first. Tried early, tried late trips. Ended up finding a back-roads route. People are simply growing more and more aggressive and offensive drivers. When you are tailed less than one car length at 60 miles an our - and you speed up to get away and they close the gap. Or you see a group of cars pass you on the freeway all tailgating at 70... you wonder why more are not dead.

I used to see people give older cars a wide berth, but not anymore. They'll ride you just the same. Makes me think when it's nice outside... Kia or Falcon? Kia wins more often than not.

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Old 12-19-2015, 05:45 AM
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Yea, but ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post
Makes me think when it's nice outside... Kia or Falcon? Kia wins more often than not.
I googled "the most unsafe car" and found: "The 2011 Kia Rio had the highest rate of death, with 149 fatalities expected per million registrations." See: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/29/s...ad-2011-study/

New cars are safer, but then I read stories like this where a man died because he could not open his electrically-operated door:
See: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...tery-dies.html

Then there was the Takata air bag problem: "He should have walked away from the fender-bender. Instead, the 35-year-old married man was killed when a defective airbag exploded and sent a large piece of metal shrapnel into his neck."

And the Chevy Cobalt ignition switch problem: "The number of deaths tied to faulty General Motors ignition switches is up to 49 as a compensation deadline looms for people hurt ..."

The Falcon has a lot of features that were considered safety advances at the time that we just take for granted now.

Model-T Fords had a single hand-operated windshield wiper. Falcons had two self-powered wipers to allow the driver to keep both hands on the steering wheel.
1940 Fords came standard with just one brake light. Falcons had two brake and tail lights for redundancy.
Falcons also had turn signals rather than the driver having to rely on hand signals (a problem at night and during rain).
Falcons had safety glass all around.
Falcons had flow-through ventilation and a hot water heater core. Model A's and Volkswagen Bugs took heat off the exhaust manifold.
Falcons had energy-absorbing Life Guard steering wheels with collapsible spokes.
Wrecked red convertible steering wheel.jpg

I am not sure, but the Model-A may have only had rear brakes. The Falcon had hydraulics to apply even force to brakes on all four wheels.

Henry Ford did not trust hydraulic brakes because they could leak and preferred reliable steel rods to activate the brakes. I think that his arguments have merit: "Henry Ford famously refused to equip his cars with hydraulic brakes up until the bitter end, which in Ford's case was the 1939 model year. Instead, he insisted on "the safety of steel, from pedal to wheel," as the ad copywriters said." That sounds good to me.

A Falcon is by no means as safe as a new car, but at least driving a Falcon is (in my opinion) vastly safer than riding a motorcycle.

Additional windshield wiper trivia: "Following a collision one rainy night in 1917 between a National Roadster and bicyclist in Buffalo, New York, J.R. Oishei, the car's shaken driver, sought a way to keep windshields clear. He found a retired electrical engineer, John W. Jepson, who had invented a hand-operated squeegee known as "Rain Rubber". Put away in the car's tool box during fair weather, a driver took it out for foul weather, sticking its handle through the opening between the upper and lower sections of the two-part windshield. As the driver pushed the handle back and forth, the blade cleared the windshield. Oishei patented the device and in 1920 Tri-Continental Corporation (later known as Trico) was incorporated to manufacture it."
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:33 AM
dhbfaster dhbfaster is offline
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Dennis, have you seen this one?

http://youtu.be/ShBoZt71pbs

Ford Falcon vs Chevrolet Corvair "no contest" video. You'll enjoy it.
I didn't realize all the safety features in the falcon!
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Old 12-19-2015, 10:57 AM
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So thankful my Kia is after they retooled and started making safe cars.

I'll have to see what a 014 Soul does.

This is growing into a thread of unsafe proportions. It may in and of itself crash!

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Old 12-19-2015, 02:23 PM
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Car accident stats are always interesting because different cars attract different age groups and people with different attitudes. Not calling you old Roger, but.........
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:12 PM
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Corvairs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhbfaster View Post
Car accident stats are always interesting because different cars attract different age groups and people with different attitudes.
Are you calling Roger unsafe at any speed?

I was driving my Falcon a couple of weeks ago when I saw a woman driving a black, late model Corvair convertible with the top down, It really was a sharp looking car. I waved at her and she waved back.

That being said, I simply do not see Corvairs very often. I look for them at car shows and they just are not there. The public liked Falcons better at the time and Falcons outsold Corvairs by a wide margin. Falcons probably also proved to be longer lasting and more durable than Corvairs over time. I remember my father saying that all Corvairs did was leak oil. Corvairs wound up having a reputation as being unsafe and their re-sale value probably went really low. It would have been like owning a Chevy Cobalt now after all the hoopla about their bad ignition switches. Or like Ford Pintos after a few of them exploded.

Thanks, Don for posting the link for the Ford film strip where they compare the Falcon to the Corvair. Maybe I am biased, but to me the Falcon looks like a more practical and better car for less money.

It does seem to be a hazardous combination to put the gas tank and a gasoline-burning heater furnace next to one another under the hood on the Corvair. The gas tank would rupture if the car ran into anything. People worry about the Falcon gas tanks and what would happen during a hard rear-end collision, but it would be more likely for the car to be to sustain damage to the front in a wreck because cars typically are moving forward.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:06 PM
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Old Car Safety

The old cars have so many endearing qualities linked to our youth and the love of how they were built, their beauty, their uniqueness and all the other traits that keep us driving and restoring them. What one of us sees as a reason to keep one would not be the reason another of us would own a particular car.

The newer cars have the advantage of many years of learning and improving. Let's not forget that the difference from driving a 2016 car and the 1960 Falcon is 56 years. Go back to the 1960 and relive the cars 56 years prior to that and you are driving a 1904 Ford. Quite a bit of improvements there also.

I just remember my 1957 Chevy that I drove in high school. It was only 7 years old when I bought it, but still seemed old and needed so many repairs all the time.

Now Carol drives a 2000 Honda Civic that has never needed repairs, still feels new, drives like a charm and is hopefully going to provide us with many more years of use.

My 2004 Chevy Silverado after 108,000 miles still hasn't had a tune up, replaced the plugs, anything and it still gets 17 MPG. It is 12 years old.

It isn't fair to compare a 1960 Falcon to a 2016 car in regards to safety anymore than it would be fair to compare the 1904 ford to the 1960 Falcon.

I know one thing. Driving my Falcon is fantastic. But so was driving a brand new Corvette with 670 HP. NO comparison, but both have their own experiences.

IF we keep the rubber side down, drive at the speed acceptable for the location, pay attention to our surroundings and like always assume some jerk is trying to kill us, we will continue to keep driving them for years to come. Drive safe, have fun, don't drink and drive and no texting.

That being said, I can't wait to get my car on the drag strip and rip through the gears going as fast as my little yellow car can go. Larry
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:12 PM
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Why is everyone always pick'n on me?


For the record - yes, I drive like a grandpa. I admit I do follow the speed-limits. Wave at the officers holding radar guns. The last accident [I may have had anything to do with] was in the late 70's. Have been hit three times since. Was hit while driving down I-5 by a late 90's Mustang. He exited the express lanes at Northgate and went three lanes over and hit the rear-end of my panel tuck. I saw it, but barely felt it. I pulled over and waited for WSP to arrive. The Mustang had about a 3' deep cavern formed in the right front. Totaled. Mine had a very minor bend in the bumper. The WSP said I could go after taking a report, but I never heard anything afterward. Once was in my wagon when I wasn't even in the car and once was in my 07 Escape as I was stopped, signalling a left, and someone decides to ignore I'm there and hits me in the rear.

But what was said about accident numbers being based upon the car and the type of purchaser probably has some value. A Kia Rio for instance is an entry-level Kia and more a youth car. Ironic that the Soul was advertised as a youthful car, but I see very few youngsters in them - as opposed to something like a Scion XB.

I still think if you put a new car up against old, the new better be thankful it's got all of that safety stuff when it hits real steel.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:53 PM
Wilbur Wilbur is offline
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I drive like a grandpa too, and I've avoided many accidents are a result. I don't own a cell phone, so I never take calls when I drive, and I won't even drive with drivers who use "hands free" devices because I was recently in a car with one such driver while they blew a stop sign and nearly killed a bicyclist who very deftly avoided being creamed by this person's car.

Sorry, I'm done with idiots who insist on driving while distracted. I won't even TALK to some friends while they drive because some people just cannot drive and talk.

It's dangerous out there, like somebody stated, you have to drive like other people want to kill you. It really is that bad. I usually ride a bicycle, ON THE SIDEWALK, and I still dodge cars daily. Even on sidewalks you have people speeding in and out of McDonald's parking lots or any parking lot, blasting right onto the sidewalk, or people driving right into you when you cross a crosswalk.

For the record, I have been hit FIVE TIMES or more while WALKING across crosswalks in Seattle with the light being GREEN TO WALK, well, white to walk. True story, now I cross crosswalks with my head spinning in circles to view ALL traffic from all direction and I shout at the top of my lungs at cars that continue driving toward me while I cross.

It really is as dangerous as if they were trying to kill you. Last summer I saw a woman lying in the street, Lake City Way around 125th, in that MAJOR crosswalk lit up like the fourth of July, some clown just hit her and hit her so hard her body and head were imprinted in the shattered windshield and paramedics worked on her as she lay in the street.

The summer before only half a block down, the road that leads from DICK'S onto Lake City Way, I saw a woman laying UNDER A CAR in the crosswalk as paramedics worked to save her.

It really is becoming sick, many drivers are truly beyond belief seriously ****ed up in the head and it's only getting worse. You can find the stat online, this year we are going to EXCEED 40,000 Americans dying on our roadways.

Let that number sink in...

The number of Americans seriously injured every year are in the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

Let that number sink in...

It's dangerous out there and sooner or later, as a nation we're gonna have to address this.

Speech over.

Badbird, I know the pleasure of ripping through gears, I used to own a 1969 MGB with a Chevy small block V8 for a motor. How I miss those days! My bone stock little V8 Falcon, a '64 with 260 cubes and factory stock, while it puts a smile on my face, is nothing compared to a truly potent car.

I guess if I had the cash I'd buy something new, with gobs of power, on the other hand, if I had that kind of money, I'd want something like a 1950's Ferrari Barchetta, or an Aston Martin DB5, or a 30's Bentley, and on the other hand I'd buy the new car because any vintage car I want will cost hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. So a new Turbo Porsche will be cheap by comparison.

I would like to buy myself a 50's Allard J2, I believe the model is, a 2000 pound cycle fendered car with well over 300 hp from its 331 ci Cadillac motor, it was a demon back in the day and could probably still give 90 percent of modern cars a good run for their money with that power to weight ratio.

Dennis, the charm of your utterly untouched, unmodified car is also very appealing, especially as described by you. I occasionally look for a '63 Falcon V8 convertible and I would like the car to be exactly as you have yours, unmodified, exactly as original.

As you've seen me write before, my own "bone stock" unmolested '64 Falcon V8 sedan is a constant struggle because I would like to modify it but I hate to touch it.

Currently the ONLY mods are a bolt in 1 inch anti-sway bar up front, and that dang ugly aluminum radiator I have in it. One day I'll list an ad for a trade on here, trade my nearly new alloy radiator for an OEM nearly new Falcon radiator.

I may even return the original air cleaner to the engine bay, I forgot about that mod, I have a chrome air cleaner housing on it and it's ugly.

Aside from these things, my Falcon is original, unmolested, a bare bones basic '64 Falcon V8 with manual: brakes, steering, and transmission, no frills, no chrome other than the bumpers and a single strip down the center of the sides of the body, and the windshield surround.

It's a very basic wonderful car, I will not add disk brakes, and the only mods from here may be bolt on/bolt off stuff like a fiberglass front bumper, fiberglass hood, and frankly I don't even think I want to add the alloy intake I bought for it.

I considered headers but I may avoid even those, I want me a "Dennis-mobile" now, you've dang near got me convinced that I want an utterly bone stock time capsule that drives exactly as the factory intended it to.

Hopefully, one day, I'll get to see your car in person! If your car were a convertible I'd be plying you with cash! That's the type of condition I hope to find my convertible in! For now, due to my not having a garage, no nice cars. My beaters are fine without a garage but would benefit from one.

My unmolested '64 Falcon, I really wish I had a garage for that. I'm working on it! I can't wait to see this car painted and looking good!
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Last edited by Wilbur; 12-22-2015 at 12:16 AM.
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