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Old 06-14-2008, 02:48 PM
icebox500 icebox500 is offline
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Ongoing electrical issue with not starting

I'm back on the board guys. Hope all is well. I won't be able to attend but tomorrow is the father's day show again put on by the Rooks.

I have finally gotten back to troubleshooting a long standing problem with Lady Bird today. The short of it is that she won't start. Here's the long of it...

What I know:
The starter is good
The solenoid is new
Lady Bird is an automatic

What she does:
Turn the key to the start position, hear the "clunk" of the solenoid and then all power in the car disappears. I have to disconnect the batter to release whatever is causing the short to get power back.

Testing I've done:
If I boot strap the starter straight to the battery she spins fine. If I disconnect the starter from the solenoid and turn the key, I get juice to the starter pole on the solenoid and power does not drop.

Something seems to short out under the load of the starter's electrical pull but I can' sort out what it is. Doesn't seem there are that many things to check. If it just didn't turn over I'd be looking to blame the neutral switch but that doesn't seem to be the issue.

I've tested two solenoids, had the starter bench tested, spun it in the car with the direct hook up. I've got a new regulator. I've disconnected the coil to make sure it wasn't shorting out. Nothing seems to help.

I'd really appreciate some hot tips on this.

Oh, its a straight 6 200 from a 1966 Mustang.

Quick, before I'm bald from pulling out my hair!!

Coupe
206-383-8704
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:24 PM
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pbrown pbrown is offline
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Coop,

There are four connectors on the starter solinoid. The two large ones are battery and starter. These are easy. Now I think your problem is with the other two. One is going to the ignition switch. The other is a 12V power out that feeds full 12V to the coil. This is where I think your problem is. I think the 12V out from the solinoid is feeding back to the switch. The result would be that once the solinoid engages, it would not let go.

I would start by disconnecting the 12V out terminal on the solinoid. That will leave you with the two large terminals and one small terminal going to the ignition switch. I think it is marked with an "I" but I don't recall. See what happens when you engage the starter.

BTW, you only need the 12V out terminal if you are still running points. I would hope that everyone has come to their senses by now and is running electronic ignition.

I hope this makes sense.
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:56 PM
icebox500 icebox500 is offline
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Thanks for the help. I've actually gone down that road already with no luck...

Coupe
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'61 Falcon Tudor Wagon
200 I6, Fordomatic

'66 Econoline SuperVan
240 I6, C-4 - 8 Door Model
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:55 PM
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Jeff W Jeff W is offline
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I know you already checked something this obvious...is the main power wire the solenoid to the starter have a bare spot and is shorting to the exhaust?

Can you explain a bit more when you say that "all power in the car disappears"?

So if you have your headlights lights on, hit the starter to hear the solenoid click, the headlights lights go completely out?
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:41 PM
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redfalken redfalken is offline
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Because power returns when you disconnect the power it would seem to point to some sort of relay. There aren't too many on your car and I think the solenoid is basically a relay. Somehow once it gets energized, it's staying that way until power is cut to it.

Now ya just gotta figure out WHY! I would try to get another set of eyes to help you and go over each wire, trace the path, check connections, and look for signs of damaged wires.

Does anyone know how you would verify if the ignition switch is going funky? In otherwords, how can you hotwire the car from inside the cab?
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:23 PM
icebox500 icebox500 is offline
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Thanks for the help. I've actually gone down that road already with no luck...

Coupe
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'61 Falcon Tudor Wagon
200 I6, Fordomatic

'66 Econoline SuperVan
240 I6, C-4 - 8 Door Model
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2008, 03:26 PM
icebox500 icebox500 is offline
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Kenny, that last post of mine referred to the distributor testing.

I am in agreement that it may very well be the ignition switch at this point. A friend suggested that all the "right" stuff has been tested and that he had the same exact issues when the ignition switch in his Rambler died.

I'm going to use a remote start switch to see if I can get it running and then run off to Napa for a replacement ignition switch.

I'll let you guys know if I have any luck!
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'61 Falcon Tudor Wagon
200 I6, Fordomatic

'66 Econoline SuperVan
240 I6, C-4 - 8 Door Model
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2008, 08:24 PM
icebox500 icebox500 is offline
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Sorted it out!

After putting a remote starter on the car to remove the ignition from the equation... nothing better happened! I decided that the replacement solenoid had to be bad so I picked up a new one and bingo bango she's up and running.

I've got to put some tires on her and push out a dent from some idiot on the street to get her ready to drive to Chehalis for Billet Proof. True repair on the dent will follow this summer.

Whew! Thanks for all the tips.

Coupe
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'61 Falcon Tudor Wagon
200 I6, Fordomatic

'66 Econoline SuperVan
240 I6, C-4 - 8 Door Model
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Old 06-15-2008, 08:53 PM
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redfalken redfalken is offline
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Zippity do da! Glad you're back on the road...

It's Miller time!
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Ballard, Seattle, WA
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`62 Tudor Sedan (`69 200, C4, 8-inch 4-lug 2.79 rearend, Duraspark II, MSD, Weber 32/36 DGEV)
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2008, 12:14 AM
justahairFalconloopy justahairFalconloopy is offline
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I'll keep an eye out for you at BP...look for a 63 woodie wagon!!...all rusty and bootyful !!...that'l be me!!
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