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  #76  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:12 AM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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Am I done?

Well... it's fully assembled again. That much is true, though not with a little two-steps forward, one step back thrown my way a couple times; the most recent being the water pump leaking. So that got swapped this morning.

waterpump1.jpg

Last night I added the trunk fill and put the stock gas cap on, but you can't unscrew it from the outside.

tankfill1.jpg tankfill2.jpg

Of course, though I'm sure these seat hinge covers can be bought new - I forgot to order anything for these. So instead I mended a couple cracks and sprayed them. They look pretty good.

seat_hinge_covers.jpg

Seats feel really firm now. Quite a difference between sitting on the floor as the old seat foam didn't do a bit towards eliminating that.

Am_I_done.jpg

So, am I done? Not quite. Though Freddie starts quickly and runs really well - there is something not quite right yet. Though it idles beautifully... when I drop it into reverse, or drive, it's both a pretty hard shift, and then stumbles and dies. I can feather the gas and keep it running, but I've not spent enough time checking other things yet. I'm not yet sure why there is such a harsh shift into gear though. That concerns me. It almost seems wrong to me. I'm going to call Hughes (the torque converter maker) on Monday to get some specs on the part they made for Gary. I couldn't find anything in what he provided other than a part number. There may be something in the notes given me, but have to read those again to see if there was anything pertaining to the transmission issues. The way that transmission leaked like a sieve, I hope the internals were done better. Would not be able to afford a transmission right now. And if I could it would not be an automatic.

But she sounds and looks good. If I can only get the going part working now!
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63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear


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  #77  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:45 PM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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Stall Converters explained?

Having nearly no working experience with performance automatics - apart from adding a few shift kits to improve shifting - the concept of what a stall converter does, and doesn't do, has as many interpretations as there are web sites. I found the following explanation I believe may be one of the most logical I've read. So it gives me some things to try while I await a call from Hughes Performance who made the torque converter.

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/1...ter-selection/
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63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear


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  #78  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:01 AM
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Freddie comes alive!

I read that material. I already knew all of that.
Just kidding. I now have a headache.
I am really amazed at what engineering goes into these parts and usage. In rebuilding the C4 that I originally had in my Falcon, it fascinated me to no end. Larry
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  #79  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:06 PM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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Success! Oh happy day!

After chatting with the Hughes guy (though he didn't offer any help, only specs) - I now know it has a 2500 stall converter.

I used the information from that page I posted yesterday and a timing 101 sheet Gary had in his files, and after a few tweaks Freddie appears to be running as I would have expected all along. I then checked timing curves. Though shifting is still somewhat harsh into reverse, I believe that is just a condition of the rear-end taking up play. Going into drive is not harsh at all. It no longer stalls when going from park or neutral into gear and only drops a couple hundred RPM and not the 500 RPM as before, then dying.

So what I initially did was just to increase base timing to 15 and that allowed it to go into gear. Vacuum is hovering only around 15 inches max, but drops to about 7 in gear. But it ran!

I also noticed total mechanical advance was up into the high 40's, which would be a bad thing. And mechanical advance was coming in at a very low RPM, like below idle it was having an effect. So I pulled the distributor apart and found the mechanical weight stop in the 18L spot (you double that to deter what the max advance will be, or in this case 36 degrees mechanical). Add that to a base of 15 (or even 10) and you have 46-51 total advance! Yikes! So I rotated everthing to the 13L side, pulled the distributor flipped the rotor around 180 degrees (you have to do this when you change the max advance stops) and now I can see normal peak advance with mechanical limited to only 26. With the 10 baseline that's 36 total advance. Also had two light springs allowing very quick ramp up to max mechanical advance; like max reached by 2500 RPM. So put back in one heavy spring to see how that was.

Seems very normal now, but driving it may cause some adjustments to happen.

Plus, there is a huge debate about using manifold versus ported vacuum for vacuum advance. Shifting into gear with a base timing near 10 will only happen right when using manifold vacuum, which increases timing at idle to about 20 degrees. So that's where it is. From what I've read these differ only at idle, so we'll see.

Next comes a road test. Maybe tomorrow if I can get cars swapped around.

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Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear



Last edited by Luva65wagon; 05-09-2017 at 10:08 PM.
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  #80  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:22 AM
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Roger, I am glad that you've attacked the distributor. I did some radical stuff in there (as you've discovered) to try to get driveability back when I was struggling just to get it to run! With the new build, I was certain the "curve" I had put in wasn't needed... indeed was probably dangerous... and I wanted to go un-do it. I just couldn't psych myself up....
I feel much better now!
Go, Roger, GO!
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  #81  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:40 PM
dhbfaster dhbfaster is offline
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Wow, my brain must be too tired for all that tonight....

Looking forward to the road test report though!
Take some video if you can.
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  #82  
Old 05-10-2017, 09:35 PM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDee View Post
Roger, I am glad that you've attacked the distributor. I did some radical stuff in there (as you've discovered) to try to get driveability back when I was struggling just to get it to run! With the new build, I was certain the "curve" I had put in wasn't needed... indeed was probably dangerous... and I wanted to go un-do it. I just couldn't psych myself up....
I feel much better now!
Go, Roger, GO!
Gary, I didn't see anything ultimately dangerous. Would have only been if the driver ignored the rocks rattling around in the motor climbing hill or accelerating hard. I only found double light springs, and maybe some extra-bent spring posts. Because the heavy spring was longer than the lighter one I chose the spacing that matched the spring length, as a starting point. The distributor really should just go somewhere to be curved, but I'll do that only if I find it suffers greatly.
FWIW, After watching your struggles all these years and wanting to be able to help, but knowing it was just out of my reach to help you, I feel much better now too seeing it come to life and light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhbfaster View Post

Wow, my brain must be too tired for all that tonight....

Looking forward to the road test report though!
Take some video if you can.
It's been an education, for sure. I relish this sort of challenge though, so to me it's all good. But getting straight answers... from places such as this, a forum on the Internet... leaves a bit to be desired. But if you dig enough and read enough you start to find the things that make sense and discard the rest.

I wanted to test drive it today, but a trip to the dump... which ended up being a trip alright... made for a long day not test driving the car. So, with the weather on the change again, we'll see how and when that happens. It's that dang-ed musical car problem.
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Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear



Last edited by Luva65wagon; 05-10-2017 at 09:38 PM.
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  #83  
Old 05-13-2017, 11:06 PM
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Done two too

I keep finding little things to do as the weather fights me to put everything out in the rain. Yesterday I replaced the sway bar and bushings with one I had laying around and today I addressed the one last leak I was putting off until the end - the drain plug on the oil pan. And just like almost everything else, I look at this and scratch my head...

oil1.jpg

I guess if one washer is good, two worn out ones are better. Not. Why wouldn't the folks who changed the oil last (and it wasn't Gary) address this? Like the transmission leaks I found.

And I'm also surprised at how filthy the oil was for something with so few miles, and all relatively new. And it seems to me it was not that many miles (according to the notes I read) that this oil was changed... or was it?

oil2.jpg

I got a wild hair last night and laid on my back and nearly scrubbed the entire underside of the car. There was so much oil residue under there from all these leaks, but I guess it kept it all from rusting - the paint was all pretty good except where I fixed a couple minor rust issues on the driver side. No picture of this, but it came out very nicely.

So here it is all defrocked of covers and spare parts. I still need to get six screws to put the seat hinge covers on, but I can drive it without these.

done1.jpg done2.jpg

Freddie is retiring. I know it will always be Freddie to everyone here, and even to me, but because I wanted the car to have period-correct plate holders, and it having collector plate now, I had a set of nice plate frames and put those on. The "Fred's Fine Cars" frame holder will remain with the car as a memorial for the history and story.

According to the original owners manual, still with the car, the car was sold by Titus Ford in Tacoma in 1963. I'd love to find a pair of those frames, but for now... these will be from when it got traded in to William O. McKay Ford in 1965 for the next Falcon the guy had. Yeah, that's what happened.


done3.jpg
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Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear



Last edited by Luva65wagon; 05-13-2017 at 11:12 PM.
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  #84  
Old 05-14-2017, 05:04 PM
beerbelly beerbelly is offline
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Your car looks GREAT Roger, especially nice work on the seats; they look like showroom.

I also have my original owner's manual, with two previous owners documented. The car came from the Good-Reichman dealer in Yreka CA. It looks like someone was interested in a Protect-O-Top judging from the note on the cover. It would be fun to find a couple of plate frames from that dealership too.

And speaking of "Why??", here's a shot of the oil pan patch that came with the car when I bought it. Looks like a J-B Weld job to me. It worked OK, but jeez, that's tractor-fixin' stuff!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_7293.JPG (149.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7297.JPG (154.2 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7288.JPG (142.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7287.JPG (162.6 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Old oil pan patch.jpg (152.9 KB, 11 views)
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  #85  
Old 05-14-2017, 06:58 PM
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MacDee MacDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post

According to the original owners manual, still with the car, the car was sold by Titus Ford in Tacoma in 1963. I'd love to find a pair of those frames, but for now... these will be from when it got traded in to William O. McKay Ford in 1965 for the next Falcon the guy had. Yeah, that's what happened.

I have a couple of stories about previous owners.
First, there was the guy who came up to it at the Greenwood show in about, um... 2003(?). He said "I know this car. I was with the girl who bought it when she bought it." He told me her name, and it was the same person I bought it from, but had a different surname. I said "Oh, yeah! Her last name is, uh..." He stopped me and said "I don't want to know." and walked off.
The other encounter was a girl at the Greenwood show a couple of years later. She said "I've driven this car. It belonged to a friend of mine." I asked who her friend was, and if I could get a chance to meet her. "No," she said "she died a few years ago."
So my story goes that the original owner sold it to the gal who passed away, the car ended up at Fred's Fine cars and the gal I bought it from bought it there... in the company of her boyfriend... whom she subsequently jilted! We'll need to figure out where the guy who got it from Wm O Mckay fits in. Maybe he's the guy that the gal who passed away got it from!
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Last edited by MacDee; 05-14-2017 at 07:14 PM.
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  #86  
Old 05-17-2017, 03:02 PM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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It is driving me a bit crazy how crazy busy I am! Right now I'm embroiled in swap meet (and tonight's club meeting) preparation, but if I'm to believe then the weather reports are looking really good for both these events as well as a test drive, real soon now. If things go well I might get this car on the road the evening after the swap meet. First stop next week will be an exhaust shop for tail-pipes.

A story of my own... I was telling someone the other day how, I realized recently that since I moved here I've had nothing but absolute anxiety when it comes to doing test drives now. And I've done quite a few since being here. Never really focused on it until recently, but I recently faced that as a real-deal issue for me. I know it is not because I don't trust my work, but for those who have never been to my place I have two driveways, one to a car port and one to my garage - and both are about a 40 foot long 10% grade from the street. So it's easy to get down them (assuming failing brakes don't make that 'too easy'), but it will not be easy - or has it ever been - to get a car that doesn't run correctly - or at all - up these hills. So I always struggle now to be absolutely sure I trust whatever it is - is going to go down and back up again. I realized when I built my Ranchero, and when I chose to part out the better of the two I bought, the only reason I chose one over the other was simply because one was running and one wasn't. Hind-sight that was a foolish move, but it was caused by this anxiety.

I need a couch.



Right now the car is surrounded by swap meet goodies I'm pulling from my loft. As I look up into my loft - it looks the same. I have too much stuff!



Gary, appreciate the history. One of the two plate frames on it was from McLendon hardware. Some previous owner must have also been a handyman!

Beerbelly, Appreciate the comments. Gary originally put new seat upholstery in, but said seat foam wasn't available then. I've gone from sitting on the floor, literally, to rubbing my head on the head-liner!

As for your pan-patch, you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. JB-Weld seemed to be working! But there are temporary things where the problem comes when those become permanent. Or temporarily permanent! Or permanently temporary!

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Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear


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  #87  
Old 05-17-2017, 03:22 PM
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I put on the McLendon's license frame. As I recall, the car didn't have a frame on the back, and one day McLendon's was handing out license plate frames as a promotional item, so....
Of course!
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  #88  
Old 05-17-2017, 03:23 PM
beerbelly beerbelly is offline
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Roger, I hear you about long driveways on a grade; here's mine- 140' down to the road. After I put the Chockostang disc brakes on, it took some "manning up" to take a test drive. I had it in reverse, clutch in and one hand on the e-brake handle. No drama though- whew!
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  #89  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:29 PM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerbelly
here's mine- 140' down to the road.
You win!

Brake jobs are the worst, but stalling down the hill I can't tow it up without the tow vehicle being stuck between house and car. I do have a chain bolted to my loft and have pulled a car half the distance with a pair of come-along's. Wasn't fun. Should keep an eye out for a winch.
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Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear


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  #90  
Old 05-27-2017, 11:51 PM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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Haven't I test driven it yet?!?

No, I haven't. When I got home from the swap meet last Saturday I had all the driveways clear to back it out and at least swap places with the Ranchero in the carport. So I jumped in and... it is spit and sputtered and died over and over. It's been running great for days and just when I wanted to drive it - Kreddie Kruger - came back out to play with my dreams. So, on and off this last week I pondered, and stared at it, trying to decide what to do. I determined it wasn't running out of gas. Checked all the wiring. Even got a new cap and rotor and stator for the distributor.

After swapping all those out I tried again and it spit and sputtered blowing fuel out the carb like the timing was way out of whack. Checked to see if I messed up something changing the stator, but it was installed right. I even check compression.

Then I pulled the carb off the Ranchero, but found I couldn't make it fit (Summit carb with dual fuel inlets), so after messing up the Ranchero I was at a $450 or a $300 cross-roads. Do I get a new carb or a new CDI Ignition module - or both. Or just list it on Craigslist. Then I got a wild hair and thought maybe the coil was bad. I had a couple of those square mid-80's coils and set one up temporarily - and VROOM! Only ran it a couple seconds, but it was long enough to know the issue was the coil. An Excel coil at that.

So off to the parts house because I didn't want to hassle with making a bracket for that square style coil. Then I got confused at the store what the specs needed to be, so I went home empty-handed, checked the specs, and crawled up into the loft just to make sure I didn't have a coil stashed up there. I actually found a new coil up there, so on it went.

I had been playing with the timing while it was misbehaving so I hooked up the timing light and could not get the timing mark anywhere near where it needed to be. And, as if that wasn't enough, if I hooked up the vacuum advance tube the timing retarded and it died instantly! What the heck is this thing doing! It's supposed to advance the timing when vacuum is applied, not retard it??!



So, since I knew the stator wasn't the original issue I decided to reinstall the other one again. At least get my $40 back. New wires needed to be added to the old one since they were getting pretty short from efforts to adapt it "before me," then my cleaning all that cobbled mess up a few weeks ago, and now me cutting off the connector to use with the new one today. A couple crimps later, and it was all back in; all the while convincing myself there was no way this new one I had just put on earlier could be bad. Well, it was. Once the old one was back in the car fired up, timing adjusted correctly, vacuum advance advanced the timing as it is supposed to do. And I called it quits for the day. Test drive will have to wait again.

From today on Fr$%^ie is a 4-letter word. It has no name that shall be named from now on.

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Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear


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