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Thread: Tie rod ends. L & R, or not?

  1. #16

    Philosophical meanderings

    Quote Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post
    (1) I thought you were going to do the work yourself and then have it aligned afterward, but either way should be nice driving it with a new front end.
    (2) Are they going to inspect the steering box 'while they'er at it' (WTAI as opposed to WIAI).
    (3) The only other thing you could have added, which I think you would have liked a lot, is a thicker front sway bar.
    Hello, Roger.

    (1) Taking those grease encrusted frozen parts apart would have been a real bear. The mechanic has a lift, the extra tools, and he knows what he is doing. He has a machine to do the alignment. He will probably have it done by tomorrow afternoon. Bingo bango duno.

    (2) There is some extra play in the steering. How much is normal? Until the new pitman arm, idler arm, ball joints, etc., are installed I won't be able to tell how much of the play is due to a worn steering box and how much is due to everything else. I did pump the box full of lithium grease about a year ago. I could not add much extra, which showed that the box was almost full of grease to begin with. If it has been kept full of grease, maybe it is OK. Rust probably destroys these things quicker than does wear. I'll see what the steering is like after all the new parts are installed. If I can't say for sure that is a problem, maybe I don't have a problem.

    (3) I did give a heavier sway bar some thought. I wondered why if the heavier bar was better, why didn't the Ford engineers specify one insead of the stock 11/16" bar. One guy at work thought that maybe it was economics. If the heavier bar cost 50-cents more and you build two million cars, the heavier bar costs a million dollars. Another guy said that a heavier sway bar makes the suspension stiffer. You sacrifice ride comfort on a bumpy road for less body roll on a sharp turn. Then I considered that the stock bar has been on the car for the past fifty years. Why should I take it off now? What I liked about my car when I bought it was that it was relatively unmolested. I want to leave it as original as I can. The 1963 ride may have had some body roll, but that's what a 1963 ride was and that is part of what makes it different from new cars. Along with its drum brakes, leaf springs, and generator. I can always add a heavier sway bar later, but I would first like to feel what the original ride was like. The new parts that will be installed include new sway bar links and bushings to get the stock bar performing like it is supposed to. I may be happy with it as is.
    Last edited by ew1usnr; August 27th, 2014 at 07:27 PM.
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  2. #17
    Rebuilding the front end will certainly improve the ride. As a follow up project, you should take a look at the leaf springs and bushings out back. I remember when I redid my front end the first time. The improvement was great. But replacing the leaf spring bushings made just as big an improvement.
    Patrick Brown
    331 Stroker / T5 / 8" / Wilwood Disks / RRS R&P Steering / Megasquirt EFI


  3. #18

    Leaves and twigs

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrown View Post
    As a follow up project, you should take a look at the leaf springs and bushings out back. I remember when I redid my front end the first time. The improvement was great. But replacing the leaf spring bushings made just as big an improvement.
    Hello, Pat.

    Thanks for bringing that up. When I changed my rear shocks I looked at my leaf springs bushings and wondered if they were something that required attention. The leaf springs themselves are not broken down, so they are probably OK. The bushings are in place, but they are dry rotted. It is a lot of work to replace them and I wondered if it was worth the effort. If they were missing then I would get a banging noise and the car would shift back and forth on its springs. Do you think that it would make any noticeable difference to change these bushings for new ones?

    Left front:
    Left front.jpg

    Left rear:
    Left rear.jpg

    Right front:
    Right front.jpg

    Right rear:
    Right rear.jpg
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  4. #19
    Dennis,

    The rear bushing are actually pretty easy to replace - assuming the nuts come off easy from the shackles. They also see the most movement and wear.

    The rear bushings are hand-pressed in and you only need to take the weight off of them a little as opposed to jacking up the entire car and pulling the axle out, which you need to do the front ones. Just place the rear shackles in a neutral position, one side at a time (if the tire comes off the ground - you've gone way too high), remove the shackle nuts, slip them off, pry out the 4 bushings (probably more rust-based glue than anything holding them in), reverse/rinse/repeat. Many bushing kits even come with new shackles

    The fronts are a little harder to install and may require a press. But they are also much thicker and may not be rotted where you can't see them.

    Evident in the pictures are also the spring anti-squeak pads (between each leaf), which are hanging and well beyond providing any anti-squeak properties by now. Most new springs don't supply them anyway. My new springs squeaked to high-heaven and I finally sprayed some lube between the leafs and it went away. You might just opt to razor-knife the dangly parts to clean it up a little.

    Basically, if the car isn't sagging, you can probably go a while without messing with it. You can also add some coil-over rear shocks if you're noticing it is riding low in the back. I've got Monroe Sensa-traks on the wagon and made it ride much better without replacing springs. It has new rear spring bushings though.

    Can't wait to hear the report on the front end - and yeah, I get the keeping it stock notion.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  5. #20

    The Wonder Falcon is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post
    (1) Can't wait to hear the report on the front end - and yeah, I get the keeping it stock notion. (2) The rear bushing are actually pretty easy to replace - assuming the nuts come off easy from the shackles. They also see the most movement and wear.
    Hello, Roger.

    The mechanic installed the new front end parts and I drove the car back home this afternoon. He said that all the parts fit without any problems and to bring it back in a couple of months to align it again after the new bushings and springs have settled in.

    Here is the new left lower control arm (with a smear of lithium grease) and you can see the new sway bar end link. I made a u-turn driving home and did not notice any body roll. The stock sway bar seems to be functioning correctly now.
    Left Lower Control Arm.jpg

    The new pitman arm is in the background and you can see the left inner tie rod end. There were some blobs of lithium grease on the tie rod end ball joints that I wiped off with a paper towel. Maybe it got squished out while driving home.
    Pitman arm and inner tie rod end.jpg

    Here is the new right upper control arm and coil spring. The new springs make the car seem to sit just a bit a little higher in front now and I do not see the lean to the left now that it previously had.
    Right upper contrpl arm and spring.jpg

    He put new bolts on the spring tower. These look a bit longer than what was there before. I can look inside and see the new shocks and the new rubber spring insulators.
    New bolts on shock tower.jpg

    Thanks for the advice on the rear suspension. Your description does make the spring shackles sound "pretty easy to install" and I have already ordered two of them. I thought that it was interesting where you said "They also see the most movement and wear." I found this suspension explanation that shows how the shackle swings as the spring moves:
    how-car-suspension-works-2-44.jpg

    Like you said, the shackle makes the most motion and swings forward and back on two pivot points while the front bushing just pivots a little up and down.
    Last edited by ew1usnr; August 31st, 2014 at 04:11 AM.
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  6. #21

    8/31/14 Test Drive Report

    I took the car on an 86-mile test drive this morning. At low speed I noticed that the car does not creak and groan anymore while making a tight turn and the stock sway bar now prevents noticeable roll during a normal U-turn. I had to aggressively dive the car into a tight turn to produce significant body roll.

    This is someone trying to imitate me:
    Body Roll Ford-Falcon-Sprint-1963-MC-vi.jpg

    The new suspension parts made themselves most apparent at high speed. I took the car on I-75 north and found that the previous shaking that had been present at above 65 mpg was gone. Yaaaaaay!!!! The car now runs and handles like it is supposed to. It rides smoothly at 70 mph and it keeps up with highway traffic without drama. The morning air temperature was 76° and the engine temperature gauge never rose above 1/3.

    The Falcon is ready for long distance travel!
    Last edited by ew1usnr; August 31st, 2014 at 08:17 AM.
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fredrickson
    Posts
    977
    So we WILL see you at our next club meeting, or the upcoming Mini-Meet? YAH!!!!


    Gene Smith
    Fredrickson, WA
    '65 Ranchero Deluxe
    302, EFI, 4-Spd
    Granada Discs

  8. #23

    The Battle of the Shackle

    Quote Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post
    The rear bushing are actually pretty easy to replace - assuming the nuts come off easy from the shackles. They also see the most movement and wear.
    I bought two rear spring shackle sets rather than just the bushings because I thought that the old shackles might be rusted. I bought a little container of silicone grease in the plumbing section of Lowes for $3.33 and used it to lubricate and preserve the rubber bushings. Silicone grease is used to lubricate rubber o-rings and is safe to use on rubber. It is water proof and will not melt. In the upper left of the picture is the replacement standard interior rear view mirror for a 1963 - 1965 hardtop that I bought. The new mirror looks just the original. My original mirror would "droop" and not stay in place and the mirror had turned dark and the adhesive backing could be seen through the through the mirror. I installed the new morror and now the reflection is nice and bright and colorful and the mount is stiff so it should stay in position.

    New shackles and mirror.jpg

    1963 - 1965 Hardtop Std Mirror C3DZ-17700-A.jpg

    The left spring shackle came off easily. I removed the nuts and levered the old shackle out with a big screw driver. I was surprised to see that the bushings were actually in good shape. It was only the exposed outer edges that were crumbling. The existing shackle that was removed had some light surface rust but was otherwise in good condition.

    Old parts.jpg

    When I tried to install the new left shackle, I ran into a problem. The top bolt went in straight, but the bottom bolt stuck up at an angle. I compared it to the old shackle and saw that the new one (on right) was bowed in a crescent. The holes in the shackle plate that went with it would not line up with the bolts. I had to sand the rust off the old shackle and re-use it.

    Warped new shackle.jpg

    Then I ran into a second problem. The lower bolt would not go all the way through the shackle and spring and I could not get a nut on it. It turned out that the spring was shifted about and inch to the left of the shackle mount. Is it supposed to be like this? Should/can the spring be moved to the right? I don't see how it can because it is held in position by the front bushing.

    Spring too far left.jpg

    After a frustrating period of pushing and pulling, I ended up placing my tire iron against the inner left fender and levering the spring to the right and holding it with one hand while using the other hand to push the bolt through, position the other mounting plate, and start the nut. Then I used the tire iron the lever to top of the plate down to get the top hole to line up with the top bolt. Then I tightened both nuts and was done. Maybe the right side will not be as difficult.
    Last edited by ew1usnr; September 8th, 2014 at 03:56 PM.
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  9. #24
    Dennis - I assume you jacked up one side at a time as I said to? My bad. Hind-sight being 20/20 (as it always is), if you raise one side of the car (the other still being on the ground) the leaf will get forced outward if released because you've induced a twist in it. Best method would have been to support the body on both sides with the wheels just off the ground. Then place a floor jack under the rear-end and lift it until you see both shackles go neutral (perfectly vertical) - then pull one shackle at a time. No doubt if it had been me doing this, and seeing this, I'd have caught my mistake in trying it that way. Sorry for misleading you.



    Bad shackle could have been straightened but the old ones looked good too.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  10. #25

    Lean on me, brother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post
    If you raise one side of the car (the other still being on the ground) the leaf will get forced outward if released because you've induced a twist in it.
    Hey, Roger.

    You beat me to posting the explanation. I asked a friend at work about that this morning (a mechanical engineer who owns a 1967 Fairlane) and he said .... "Did you just jack it up on one side?" That made sense.

    In retrospect, yea, the car body was leaning down hill from the side that it was jacked up on and that caused it to move away from the spring.

    So, the spring is positioned correctly and everything is good. When I change the other shackle this coming Saturday morning I will jack up both sides.
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  11. #26
    Even when the spring shackles go neutral, removing the shackle will probably still allow the spring to spring up against the frame. So watch your fingers. Maintain tension downward as you pull the shackle, then slowly release it. It will not have a twist in it this time and pulling it down to remove or align the shackle bolts should be pretty easy.

    Sorry I wasn't thinking better. As soon as I saw the picture I knew what had happened - and danged if I didn't say to do it.

    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  12. #27

    Riding on new greased bushings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post
    Best method would have been to support the body on both sides with the wheels just off the ground. Then place a floor jack under the rear-end and lift it until you see both shackles go neutral (perfectly vertical) - then pull one shackle at a time.
    Hello, Roger. I followed your above listed description and installed the other shackle this morning. It went in easily.

    I jacked the car up and put a jack stand under each side.
    Jack stands and Jack.jpg

    Then I put the jack under the differential and raised it until the shackles were straight up and down.
    03-DCP_5832.jpg

    I removed the old shackle and saw that the base plate was warped in a crescent shape. The new one was straight. The shackle axles being straight in-line will allow them to rotate within the bushings with less binding.
    Old Shackel.jpg

    I greased the bushings, shackle axles, and the bushing holes in the frame and spring ends with silicone grease. This pictures shows the inserted new greased bushings. Note that the leaf spring is centered under the frame rail.
    The leaf sping stayed in line with the frame rail.jpg

    Then I installed the new shackle assembly and tightened the nuts and was done. Cool! The shackle is swung forward because the car was still on the jack stands when I took the picture.
    08-DCP_5837.jpg

    One note about the silicone grease. The water-proof property that makes it a good plumbing lubricant makes the stuff impossible to wash it off your hands with soap and water. It is best to wear disposable latex gloves if you are going to use it to grease spring shackle bushings as I described.
    Last edited by ew1usnr; September 13th, 2014 at 06:47 PM.
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  13. #28
    Nice work on the shackle replacement. One thing to note; those new ones are bare metal so they will rust. You might want to get some black rattle can chassis paint for them.
    Patrick Brown
    331 Stroker / T5 / 8" / Wilwood Disks / RRS R&P Steering / Megasquirt EFI


  14. #29

    People will comment on my attractive leaf spring shackles.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrown View Post
    One thing to note; those new ones are bare metal so they will rust. You might want to get some black rattle can chassis paint for them.
    Thanks for the tip, Pat.

    Rust is unattractive. I used a brush and added a coat of primer. Some silicone grease had oozed past the press fit of the lower axle bolt and you can you can see below the bolt where the primer effectively "beaded" and did not stick. Oh, well.

    1-DCP_5841.jpg

    I'll add a top coat of black tomorrow.

    Next day update:

    Is chassis black paint flat or semi-gloss? I painted the shackles with glossy black Rust-Oleum® paint. It was what I had on the shelf, and it will get covered with dust anyway. The paint is still wet in the pictures.

    Behold, the painted right shackle! I spread a little paint on the bottom of the frame rail where it had been scraped by the leaf spring while replacing the shackle.
    Right painted shackle.jpg

    Behold, the painted left shackle!
    Left painted shackel.jpg
    Last edited by ew1usnr; September 15th, 2014 at 06:19 PM.
    Dennis Pierson
    Tampa, FL
    "The Wonder Falcon"

    '63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Federal Way
    Posts
    906
    Dennis, Where did you buy your "easy turning "elastomer" swivel spring mounts" (for the front)
    and do those install with the spring end side towards the outside of the car?
    Thanks...
    Don Bartlett
    Federal Way, WA
    61 Four Door Sedan
    144-6, 3 on the tree



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