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Thread: Little @ time

  1. #16

    Smile

    Good Morning All,

    Well it has been 3 months of work but the engine is back where it belongs. I am hoping like H*#L it runs as good as it looks!!!!!!!!! Installed the wiring harnesses, head lights, and flushed the front to rear brake lines out.

    I throw in last nights sunset from my front pourch. It looks like the cold weather is coming.

    Guy
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #17
    Looks great Guy! You do good work
    Bill Proctor .. 1963 Falcon Sprint. Looking forward to learning new things.

  3. #18

    Smile

    Thanks Bill, means more coming from a fellow Falcon lover!

    Guy

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,430
    Guy, I'm glad you are keeping the rare California Emissions,block mounted PCV. I have/had one but it was hammered so I installed the downdraft tube off of Freddie’s old block before Gary took it to the recycle bin. I still have to cut-off and patch the nipple on the air cleaner.

  5. #20
    Guy - you do nice work. I am impressed.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  6. #21

    Smile

    Jeff,

    I had a draft tube type and every time I stopped at a red light the heat smoke from the tube would have people looking at the Falcon like something was wrong with it. I really like the P-valve set up just for that reason.

    Luva65,

    Thanks, coming from my pears, people that really understand what it takes to restore a car means alot.

    I have some questions about the generator convertion. Everyone on this site says how easy it is but I am the type of person that likes to understand how deep the water is before I dive in. I am coming up to the piont where I need to make an informed decision. Regarding setup, what is the difference in the one wire altenator, the internally regulated altenator, the externally regulated altenator, what wires go where and how do I go from a possitive ground to a negitive ground.

    Guy

  7. #22
    Guy,

    We're all here to help and encourage. Many a project stalls due to a lack of one or both of these, which is why I try to help and encourage everyone I can. OK, and I occasionally irritate one of two of them along the way.

    All post-60 Fords and Falcons are negative ground, so there is no conversion needed in this regard.

    Every charging system requires a voltage regulator, which senses the current charge of the battery and "feeds it" only when it is needed. Where the regulator is, is the thing that has changed.

    Improving the "amp rating" of a charging system rose sharply in the mid 70's when vehicles started adding lots of power-consuming options. It is rare today to see a 30-45 amp charging system. Most are pushing 100 amps or more. So if you want to add a lot of modern marvels to your Falcon (like I tend to do), then a generator, or a 30-45 amp alternator just won't keep the battery charged. The charging system will be at full-charge-status 100% of the time. It wasn't really every intended for this, nor would it keep the battery charged. A battery can provide far more current to the system than the charging system and the job of the charging system is to exceed the draw on the system to keep the battery charged - not drive your gadgets.

    So, I said all of that to ask: What is your intention with this car? If you plan nothing more than what the car came with, a generator with an external regulator will satisfactorily supply enough current to keep a modern battery charged under that condition. If you want to run a few extra goodies, or maybe make sure your headlights stay bright 100% of the time (nothing pulsing bright and dim at idle), then you should at least upgrade to an alternator, which will significantly improve the current feed and keep the lights steady - and allow you to add a better stereo system if you want to.

    An externally regulated alternator is a simple add, relatively speaking, but there are slight changes to the wiring harness needed where the regulator is, as well as the feed to the alternator itself over that of the generator. Really there are only 4 wires we are talking about here and you can easily create a single unique harness to handle this need, instead of using the wires in the original harness. But the best way to handle this may be to swap to the 65 harness feeding the core support. I have never really looked at the EXACT difference in these, but I suspect the only difference is the GEN versus ALT dash light feed wire, and where they go. And maybe horn relay.

    A one-wire and internally regulated alternator are essentially both internally regulated. A one-wire alternator, like I have done twice now, does not in and of itself, trigger any sort of ammeter or charge indicator light. I didn't care since my plan is to use a volt meter gauge. An alternator feeding a running car using lights, etc, is almost always pushing 14.5 volts to keep a 12 volt battery charging. Current (ammeter) gauges or charge indicator lights might be a more "instant" indicator of charge status, but you almost always have an hour of more of driving - even on just the battery - if the charging system fails. So you only need to notice if the volt meter is reading 14.5 or 12 volts. 12 volts (or increasing lower) will indicate a no-charge state.

    Suffice it to say, a 1-wire Ford 3G conversion is a bolt-in swap and only requires one wire and a large circuit breaker or fuse to go between the battery and the alternator. Some guys use the GM alternator.

    I do, also, still have a lot of the stuff needed to swap to an alternator I don't plan to use, so I will try and shoot over some images of it all and pricing for what I want for it all.
    Last edited by Luva65wagon; November 3rd, 2011 at 01:23 PM.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  8. #23

    Smile

    Luva65wagon,

    First of all let me thank you for your time in writing this all up for me. It has helped me understand how the system works.

    I have desided to install an altenator. Your statement, "a 1-wire Ford 3G conversion is a bolt-in swap and only requires one wire and a large circuit breaker or fuse to go between the battery and the alternator," is the way I wish to go.

    I would like to keep it as simple as possible. A 1-wire Ford 3G conversion being a bolt-in swap sounds like something I could pull off.

    I can make and run a wire from the battery to the altenator with an inline fuse no problem. For this I would need to know the gauge wire, which post on the battery and altenator to tie in to, and the amp rating for the fuse.

    I only want to run an aftermarket air conditioning unit. That is all I will be adding that is not already there. I like my AM radio and will be keeping it. As far as the system charging correctly, I will soon know if it does not just using my handheld voltmeter. By now you know me well enough to know I would never put anything GM into my Falcon.

    I am very interested in what you have. Please round it up and post some pictures for me when you get the time. Once I see the parts I would like you to walk we through the installation. On the other side of the coin, I have a good working generator if one of you guys in Washington can use it.

    Guy
    Last edited by Guy Monjure; November 3rd, 2011 at 04:09 PM.

  9. #24
    Guy,

    While I collect the other bits of information for you, just Google - 1g to 3g alternator swap - and you'll see lots of information on doing this. I buy the alternators I've used at the local swap meets, but they are out there too.

    Cheers
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  10. #25
    Guy,

    Here's a picture of the alternator bracket I purchased from FalconParts.com, which I paid $29.95 for.

    I did the connection slightly different on my wagon as opposed to my Ranchero. The wire connecting the alternator to the battery doesn't have to be as large as, say, your starter cable. Your starter draws very high amps, but for such a short time it gets all that "cranking amps" from the battery. But the cable should be bigger because of that. Ohms law, and all that. Small cables, higher resistance, etc.

    So you can use a good 6 gauge wire (that's what the factory used) to be on the safe side, and I used a 160amp circuit breaker on my wagon, which cost me about $30 (available from auto electric suppliers).

    For the Ranchero, I hit the wrecking yard and got a power distribution block from under the hood of a mid-to-late 80's Ford car. And used the main fuse from it to feed the alternator. See my crazy thread for photo's and detail on that. It comes with a 175amp fuse and cost $9 from the local Pick and Pull. I had to look through 50 cars before I found one that didn't have all the fuses pulled on it. I wanted more than just the main 175amp fuse. and them big fuses are $5 a piece in the parts store - which is why at a Pick and Pull they are all stolen.

    The connection is as simple as: cable from + terminal on the starter solinoid (where the + battery cable connects and the other feed to the main wiring harness-to-core support-to-firewall), then connect to the fuse, then to the BAT terminal of the alternator. And that's it.

    I have a LOT of wiring and I pulled a lot of this ALT feed 6 gauge wire. You need less that 2 feet of it on a Falcon, but they use 6-8 feet of it on the later model cars. So I just grabbed a lot of it. They don't even try to charge you for it. So neither will I.

    Let me know if you have any other questions.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  11. #26

    Smile

    I have had trouble logging in.
    Things I need;
    1. 2’ of 6 gauge wire with an inline fuse.
    2. 175amp /?volt fuse. What voltage rating?
    3. 3G Ford alternator. What car should I say I need the alternator for, need correct pulley?
    4. Bracket that allows the belt to line up with the other pulleys.
    Things I do not know;
    1. What to do with the wires that went to the generator.
    2. Do I need to move any wires on the voltage regulator?
    3. If the 6 gauge wire goes from the + side of the solenoid to the ‘bat’ terminal on the alternator, what wire routes to the firewall?
    Guy

  12. #27
    1. 2’ of 6 gauge wire with an inline fuse.
    Yep, about that.

    2. 175amp /?volt fuse. What voltage Rating?
    12 volts. You can find these where they sell fuses at the auto parts store. I'LLC try and snap a picture tomorrow of mine.

    3. 3G Ford alternator. What car should I say I need the alternator for, need correct pulley?
    I've bought mine already converted for a v-belt since they only had serpentine drives from Ford.

    4. Bracket that allows the belt to line up with the other pulleys.
    The one I posted or a stick Ford 6 alternator bracket.

    Things I do not know;

    1. What to do with the wires that went to the generator.
    Disconnect and remove or tape off.

    2. Do I need to move any wires on the voltage regulator?
    Same as #1

    3. If the 6 gauge wire goes from the + side of the solenoid to the ‘bat’ terminal on the alternator, what wire routes to the firewall?
    The original wire that went there still does. That wire feeds the power to the interior still. We're only removing the regulator feed wires.

    I may just draw you up a wiring diagram.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  13. #28

    Smile

    Luva,

    Thanks for your time walking me through this. Got a few more stupid questions.

    1. If the voltage rating is 12volts wouldn't the fuse blow when the battery goes above 12 volts?
    2. Where can I buy a 3G with a V pulley? Where did you get yours?
    3. Will I have to disconnect the old generator wires from the voltage regulator?
    4. Will I have to disconnect the feed wires from the voltage regulator that come from the firewall?

    Sorry I am having such a hard time understanding this!
    Guy

  14. #29
    Guy,

    A good company that makes high amp alternators is PowerMaster.

    http://www.powermastermotorsports.co...ate_model.html

    Answers to questions:

    1) It's the current and not voltage that will blow your fuse. Don't worry too much about 12V vs 14V.

    2) You can find a 3G and swap the pulley to a V belt.

    3) You will at least want to tape off any unused wire. I prefer to completely remove unused wire from the harness and retape for a cleaner look.

    4) I'm not sure I understand this question. You will still have a GEN light in the dash and will want that moved from the old regulator to the new 1 wire alternator.

    Here are some good diagrams to work from. As you can see in the 3G diagram, the red wire is the big wire going to the battery and the green wire is for the dash light. That's about it.

    http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...s-1G-2G-and-3G
    Last edited by pbrown; November 13th, 2011 at 06:26 PM. Reason: forgot to include link
    Patrick Brown
    331 Stroker / T5 / 8" / Wilwood Disks / RRS R&P Steering / Megasquirt EFI


  15. #30
    Guy -

    Yes, what Patrick said.

    As I indicated earlier, I'm going to use a volt meter instead of the factor Gen/Alt light, so I didn't use the feed wire from the regulator to this light. I agree also that I would have removed the wires from the harness, but you look to have already re-wrapped those, so you could disconnect the wires from the generator side, tape them off really good.

    The big fuse goes between the battery terminal on the solenoid and the other side to the 6 gauge to the + terminal of the alternator. This just just protects that line. And 12 volts is relative. Most cars are 12 volt systems, even though the actual voltages vary between 12 and upwards of 16 volts. All fuses sold for cars are all well within this range.

    I looked at the PowerMaster alternators, but I purchase a stock-looking Ford 3G alternator, with the v-pulley already installed, from a vendor I see at every car swap meet we attend here in the Seattle area. I think the search, if you do it on Google (I posted the search query above) will give you the cars that type of 3G alternator comes out of. There are, I think, about 3 mounting styles and only one bolts up to the stock bracket. And yes, you can swap out the pulley yourself. The 3G alternator is internally cooled, so you don't need to install the external cooling fan.

    I will try to do a little more leg work into this for you by drawing up the diagram, or finding one on-line and posting it.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



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