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  #46  
Old 01-27-2016, 04:15 AM
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That's the Brakes

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Originally Posted by ew1usnr View Post
Whew! It takes a lot of room for the drum brakes to get that car stopped from 75 mph
I took The Wonder Falcon in to have the oil changed and I also mentioned a tic tick tick sound and my squeaky brakes.

The tick tick tick sound was from a leaking "doughnut" gasket where the exhaust pipe joins the manifold.

The brakes were squeaking because the front shoes were worn down almost to the rivets. I had new brake shoes installed, the front drums turned, the front wheel bearings packed. and the brake lines flushed. These are the new brake shoes:

IMG_0297.jpg

IMG_0296.jpg

Yay! Now the car should stop more quickly. I will pick the car up this evening.
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)
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  #47  
Old 01-27-2016, 10:15 PM
dhbfaster dhbfaster is offline
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Were they almost to the rivets or actually to the rivets? To the rivets would usually mean an audible squeal...maybe just starting though. Anyway, Glad you're good to go now. Nice and quiet now I hope.
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  #48  
Old 01-27-2016, 11:32 PM
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Old Car Safety

Those are some nasty looking parts in there. They look like they are 50 years old. They might even look 51 years old. Larry
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  #49  
Old 01-28-2016, 05:16 AM
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Dennis, did they check the wheel cylinders? And do you know how old those are?
I can't really tell anything from the picture.
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  #50  
Old 01-28-2016, 06:34 PM
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While they were at it ...

Badbird Larry commented:
"Those are some nasty looking parts in there. They look like they are 50 years old. They might even look 51 years old."

I was kind of surprised that they had re-used the old springs. They are not bent or rusted and they look to be installed correctly so I guess that they are OK. The next time I have the brakes worked on, though, I will have to remember to specify that they install new brake hardware.

Don asked:
"Were they almost to the rivets or actually to the rivets? To the rivets would usually mean an audible squeal...maybe just starting though. Anyway, Glad you're good to go now. Nice and quiet now I hope."

The one shoe that I picked up and looked at was worn almost to the rivets. Maybe one of the other shoes was worn to a rivet. The mechanic told me that is why the brakes were squeaking. That made me feel a little dumb. The car was telling me that the brakes needed work and I was not listening.

Don asked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhbfaster View Post
Dennis, did they check the wheel cylinders? And do you know how old those are? I can't really tell anything from the picture.
Yes they did replace the wheel cylinders, which is kind of funny because they were only three years old. They replaced the new wheel cylinders and kept the old springs. Oh, well.

Now we get into the bigger development. When Don brought up gear oil I mentioned that I had a lot of gear whine from my differential. It had done that since I had bought the car 3 1/2 years ago and it is loudest at 55 mph. The car would also wobble a little at 10 mph and would (most of the time) shake at 50 - 60 mph. I had balanced the the wheels and rotated the tires but the wobble did not go away. I had gotten used to the shake wobble and whine symptoms so that they didn't bother me much and it was in the back of my mind to do something about them someday. Well, ....

When the mechanic called me back to say that the brakes were finished, he asked if I knew that the differential was "leaking on one side" and said that the rear end was "howling". He said that what I thought was gear whine was a bearing going bad and that the differential needed to be rebuilt.

Example differential for a 1965 Falcon:
65ford10.jpg

Well, uh, gee. It wasn't like he was coming up with this out of thin air because I had suspected that there was something going on. So I said, in Roger fashion, "OK. But while you are at it ..." I asked them to install new wheel bearings, inspect the u-joints, and check the drive shaft to make sure that it is straight and balanced, and check to see if an axle was bent. That was yesterday.

Example Ford 8-inch differential rebuild kit with four bearings:
Rebuild kit.jpg

He said that they would get to work on it starting this morning and that he had a press that he would use to remove the wheel bearings. He said that they would send the drive shaft out to have it spin tested for balancing and straightness. He said that he could easily spot a bent axle and did not think that finding a replacement, if necessary, would be difficult.

Not that I am going to do it, but if I were to add posi-traction, now would be the time. Usually, there are pluses and minuses to everything. I asked my mechanical engineer buddy what are the minuses to posi-traction. He said: "They are noisier, and that is what you are trying to get away from. They are also a maintenance item because they have a clutch surface that wears out."
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Dennis Pierson
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 01-28-2016 at 06:43 PM.
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  #51  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:23 PM
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Old Car Safety

There are may different types of limited slip differentials, traction lock, full spool lock ups, etc. There are benefits of course, but only for specific applications. There is an increase in initial cost, there can be an increase in repair, but if taken care of, then? There definitely can be an increase in noise, but in my 8" posi-trac that I have now, there isn't any noticeable noise.
For the type of driving you do, I wouldn't say you need posi-trac. But who knows. You may like it more than what you now have.
I have always loved posi in my 57 Chevy, my Olds 442, my 65 Corvette, and in my Falcon. You can probably find a million other pros and cons on the internet. Larry
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  #52  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:05 PM
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limited slips

Hello, Larry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBird View Post
There are may different types of limited slip differentials, traction lock, full spool lock ups, etc.
I really had no idea that there were so many variations. I will have to look each type up on Wikipedia and become educated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBird View Post
For the type of driving you do, I wouldn't say you need posi-trac. But who knows. You may like it more than what you now have.
For the type of driving that I do, I rarely even spin one wheel. The high-performance aspect of posi-trac is kind of irrelevant for what I have. When the pavement is wet from rain, though, it is sometimes difficult to get moving without spinning a wheel. The posi-trac would be nice to have under that circumstance.
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  #53  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:34 PM
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Old Car Safety

Oh my gosh, with your analytical mind you will spend a month on this subject. Realize though that there are those who complain about posi-traction in rain/snow.

I love them in the snow, but again, with the driving that you have described to us (which I love reading about) it really wouldn't behoove you. (that is a real word) to change.

I have driven cars on the drag strip with a spool and it was great for that purpose. Wouldn't want to drive it on the street.

My favorite for the street is what I have now and what I am putting in my 9" rear end (supposed to get it tomorrow) is the Ford Traction Loc which is very good for the strip, and doesn't cause a lot of ratcheting and noise on the street.

Good luck with your search and hope I didn't create a Frankenstein. Larry
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  #54  
Old 01-28-2016, 09:35 PM
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Dennis, You're making me feel a lot better that I have redone all that stuff on mine (still hoping it all works of course.)

Posi-track...totally agree with Larry...for your type of driving...not worth the extra spend.
Meanwhile, The mechanics are not just replacing the rear wheel bearings, but all the bearings in the diffy too correct? (Nobody seems to call them diffy's around here, but back when I was a kid putting fluid in them all day...we called them diffy's.) I think without drain plugs on these falcon diffy's people rarely change the fluid in them and that's why these bearings go bad when they are only 50 years old. I suspect if the fluid was changed in the diffy every five years everything would be pretty nice in there.

Now, one "While you're at it" to ask the guy...what about your u-joints? Are they checking them and/or replacing them? Mine still functioned, but when I got the drive shaft off and looked at them they were all shot. AND...they are CHEAP (especially compared to a pos-track, etc.). (Incidentally I put my new ones in my nicely painted driveshaft last weekend- man they look nice...they were easy enough to take out but for some reason I couldn't get the tension right after I put them back in. (Too tight) I don't give up that often, but I didn't want to beat it all up so I finally gave up on it and took it into my tranny guy to take care of. It should be easy for them with all the right fixtures to hold everything. Hopefully I can pick it up tomorrow.

Larry, are you clear on the brake fluid topic yet? I think I've gone 360 three times now and I'm planning to go back to standard "synthetic" (ha) DOT 3. I've decided I'm NOT going to take those cylinders off again and clean them....and apparently DOT 3 should stop better anyway.
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  #55  
Old 01-29-2016, 12:22 AM
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Old Car Safety

As far as the brake fluid, I don't have any intentions in changing mine. Just a lot of issues that go back and forth between the two sides. Not worth the hassle for me when I don't know if it's better or not. More to come for sure. Larry
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  #56  
Old 01-29-2016, 01:41 PM
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Old car safety
Dennis, for what it's worth: I was considering the installation of a limited slip rear end. I actually had talked with Larry about acquiring his 8" take-out. I've had them before, and currently have one in my little truck (Ranger 4x4, but that's for a different reason). I do not race any more, and with my Falcon I NEVER do standing start burnouts. Though I DO like to run it through the gears , the most it does is "chirp" the tires on shift now and then on dry surfaces. That's enough to make me happy and seems to put a big on my face every time. So I decided to not do the conversion. I think the most I will do is put on a set of T-bars of some sort the control the wrap-up, but that's for the future. Not to tell you what to do, but I feel a limited slip would be a waste of $$$ for you too.
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  #57  
Old 01-30-2016, 06:07 AM
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Ready for Flight Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithKid View Post
[B]Not to tell you what to do, but I feel a limited slip would be a waste of $$$ for you too.
Hello, Gene, Larry, & Don.

I retrieved The Wonder Falcon from the mechanic's shop yesterday after work. I did not want to test drive it during Friday evening rush-hour traffic, but I did not not hear any sound from the back end on the drive home. I'll take it out later this morning and run it up to 75 mph in the Interstate and see how it does.

The mechanic did not change the ring and pinon gear. He said that they were OK, but he had adjusted them closer to make up for wear.

He replaced the bearings in the differential and the wheel bearings.

He sent the drive shaft out to have it balanced and they also installed new universal joints. The mechanic said that when the drive shaft went out it had a big weight on it and when it came back it had a smaller weight.

They also fixed an exhaust leak and re-built the front brakes.

The invoice showed the following parts numbers:

Outer Axle Bearing (2) RW207CCRA
Rear Axle Seals (2) 13700
Pinion Oil Seal 18100
Differential Gasket Set RDS13270
Carrier Bearing Kit (Master Kit) SDK310MK
Front Brake Shoes TS TS154

Here are the parts descriptions:

SKF Differential Kits SKF differential kits come in either a standard kit or a master kit (MK). Standard differential kits from SKF contain all the components needed for a complete repair, including: •Pinion bearings •Differential bearings •Pinion seal •Pinion nut •Crush sleeve (where applicable) •Gear marking compound and brush •Thread locker •Silicone sealant. Master differential kits from SKF contain all the elements that come with the standard differential kits, as well as: •Pinion shims (where applicable) •Pinion adjusting shims •Differential shims •Ring gear bolts. 36-month/45,000 mile warranty.

Pinion Seal 18100 Spring Loaded, SKF Patented Bi-Directional Wave Seal, Positive Fluid Control, High Quality General Purpose Rubber, Temps from -40 Deg F to 250 Deg F.

NAPA Proformer Brake Shoes TS TS154. Brake Shoe Friction Material Attachment : Bonded
Brake Size : 10" x 2.25". Features and Benefits: Basic Reliable Friction.
Premium Friction Materials - Restores Braking To Premium Performance Levels.
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 01-30-2016 at 06:16 AM.
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  #58  
Old 01-30-2016, 09:16 AM
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Flight Test

It was 53 and mostly cloudy at 9:00. I ran the car up I-75 for 25 miles and then turned around.

On the good side:
The brake squeal, the low speed wobble, the flutter sound from the exhaust leak, and the loud gear whine from the differential are all gone. The car runs great at 70 mph.

On the disappointing side:
I still notice a vibration in the 55 - 65 mph range that is not there at other speeds. The vibration is most obvious while speeding up or slowing down through that speed range. The vibration is reduced from what it was previously, but it is still noticeable. The vibration decreases, however, if the speed is held steady while at at 60 - 65 mph.

I'm just going to drive the car and not worry about it.
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Dennis Pierson
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Last edited by ew1usnr; 01-30-2016 at 07:23 PM.
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  #59  
Old 01-30-2016, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ew1usnr View Post
N

On the disappointing side:
I still notice a vibration in the 55 - 65 mph that is not there at other speeds. The vibration is most obvious while speeding up or slowing down through that speed range. The vibration is reduced from what it was previously, but it is still noticeable. The vibration decreases, however, if the speed is held steady while at at 60 - 65 mph.

I'm just going to drive the car and not worry about it.
Maybe something easy like a wheel weight fell off. You could swap front to rear wheels and see if it changes. Free test.

Mine vibrates so bad I can't see anything in the rear view mirror. My strut bar rubbers are mostly missing, loose tie rod ends, need to check the u-joints... I have most of the front end rebuild parts on my bench.

It's all on my list, sadly when new items get added to the list, they are added to the top. Today it says, build cabinet doors for the built in book cases and China hutch. My home was built in 1913 and suffered from neglect for most of it's life. Oh, and I will be helping my 10 year old build a covered wagon model for her "Oregon Trail" unit at school. Fun stuff but little progress on the Falcon
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  #60  
Old 01-30-2016, 11:11 AM
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Oregon Trail

Quote:
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Maybe something easy like a wheel weight fell off. You could swap front to rear wheels and see if it changes. Free test.

I will be helping my 10 year old build a covered wagon model for her "Oregon Trail" unit at school. Fun stuff but little progress on the Falcon
Hello, Jeff.

Helping your ten year old is by far your most important project. I would like to see a photo of the covered wagon.

You are right. I was thinking that maybe the vibration could be related to either the tires or the wheels.
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