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Thread: Speedometer cable

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sequim
    Posts
    2,117
    I've been talking this through in my head for about an hour now and yes they do have a common circuit. Turn signal goes on and sends power up to the gauge cluster to activate the turn signal indicator, could a bad GROUND be our common denominator? If the ground for the gauge cluster is not very good it might work a bit till it gets loaded up with several things being on and stop working?
    Like I said I've been talking in my head so this might still be in my head and I'm not really typing this???
    63 Sedan Delivery
    5.0 HO EFI AOD 8" rear

  2. #17
    So you're thinking the ground for the cluster? Is there a separate one or is it just the screws holding it to the dash it self?

    Dash lights work, oil and gen lights work, headlights work, taillights work but turn lights do not come on in dash or at corner lights at all.

    When the fuel and temp. gauges worked yesterday nothing else was on but as soon as I moved the turn signal lever both gauges started for zero immediately. I turned the car off and restarted several times yesterday and the gauges worked fine every time but never tried the turn signals til I was idling in the drive way at the end!
    none

  3. #18
    I've been staring at the diagram (see attached) and there is only one thing common. I'm beginning to lean heavily to it being a voltage drop coming from a failure at the ignition switch.

    From the ignition switch there are two sources to feed things - IGN and ACC. There is a feed directly from the battery (solenoid) BLK-YEL to the headlight switch, but it seems to power headlights, door lights, and the stop light switch (all of these are key-off ready).

    If you look at the diagram the headlight switch gets a feed from the BLK-GRN from the center ACC switch terminal. This also provides power to the other fuse on the headlight switch to feed the ORG-YEL (turn signal flasher) and BLK-RED (backup light).

    The CVR also gets its power (unfused) from the ACC terminal of the IGN switch.

    So here we have the only common connection between the BLK-GRN to the CVR and the BLK-GRN that feeds the headlight switch, and through the fuse to the ORG-YEL to feed the +12v to the flasher. I think when you use your turn signals there is a voltage drop to the CVR and the gauges no longer can function.

    So check the tightness of the nut on that center terminal of the switch, and failing that being loose, I think it is the IGN switch internally.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Luva65wagon; June 11th, 2014 at 02:16 PM.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  4. #19
    Also, for what it's worth, I've used the new CVR's and they work fine. The gauges run on about 5-6 volts and the way they did this in the olden days was to use a bimetallic regulator sort of thing. There was a wire wound around a bimetallic spring inside these and when 12 volts was supplied to that winding (cold) it would heat the thing up. It would quickly heat the spring, bend it, and the current feed would then get broken. Then the spring would cool, close the switch, and heat up again. Rinse and repeat.

    The dwell time between the on and off (this was adjusted at time of manufacture by increasing or decreasing pressure against the spring contacts, then "glued in place" with some sort of fingernail polish) created an appearance of there being about 5 volts (0-10v swing).

    The new units use a true 5-6 volt regulator. I discussed this in a thread sometime last year and even bought parts to make some of these myself. I have not got aroundtuit, but have enough cans and parts to make about a dozen of them. Real Soon Now.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  5. #20
    You know I thought about the ignition switch but I also thought once I turned the turn signal off the gauges should have worked again but got nothing.

    I also tried turning the key to the ACC side to see if they would power up but still nothing.

    It may take some time to figure this one out and may have to wait til I come back from vacation.

    I'll keep you all posted and try to look into the ignition switch.

    If you can think of any thing please let me know,

    Tom
    none

  6. #21
    Other than to check voltages at the time of failure, this is all I can come up with.

    I've created every wiring harness, from scratch, for almost ever car I've built (which is hardly Painless ). There is not a lot of magic here, but it does cause a lot of people a lot of anguish. I have 4 tubs of wiring harness bits and pieces just for that reason.

    http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums...&postcount=291

    Bottom-line is you just got to get out the old voltmeter and see what is, at the time it isn't, and know where to look. If voltage isn't at the time it isn't, where isn't it coming from where it should be coming from?

    I'm sure that made total sense.

    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  7. #22

    Electrical Issue

    Been on vacation for a couple of weeks, just got back and thought I'd start trying to find the source of the electrical problem. Went out and put the key in the ignition turned the key to on and the fuel and temp gauge worked just fine!

    Turned the turn signal on and the fuel gage started for zero, tuned the signal off and nothing, turned the ignition off and back on--the gauges came alive again. Did this a couple of times and now both gauges don't work again.

    I took off the steering wheel and checked turn signal connections and all seems fine but the gauges still don't work. I guess I'll dig into the dash wiring next!

    After checking a little more though I have head lights, horn, running lights in rear and stop lights, all dash lights, oil and gen lights but-- no parking lights in front, no turn signals front or rear and no turn indicator lights in dash.(and the temp and fuel don't work)

    If anyone has any miraculous thoughts or epiphanies please let me know, otherwise it may be a long summer.
    none

  8. #23

    Ignition switch is the problem

    This seems like a good news and bad situation, on one side it seems I have found the area causing the problem but I not sure how to handle it now!

    I spent most of the day today trying to locate the problem with my turn signals and have narrowed it to the ignition switch.

    There are 2 wires(from a previous owner) connected to the screw in the center of the back of the ignition switch. The wires are not connected to anything else but are connected to this screw so they must have gone to something somewhere along the line. When I move either one of these wires the fuel and temp gages go to zero. If I move them around again the gages come to life. One of wires is substantial size and the other has one side of a fused connection on it.

    My questions are-
    Is this screw hot or is there something else going on behind the wiring cover?

    How is this effecting the turn signals?

    Should I just order a new switch and wiring cover?

    Tom
    none

  9. #24
    Switch post should only be hot with key on.

    My guess there is a short in the ignition switch pig tail.
    You can replace (or used to) the pig tail, but it means cutting and splicing wires. Not a problem, if you know how to do it correctly. Crimp and butt connectors could cause problems in future.

    Option 2 replace under dash wiring harness..
    Nathan and Jen Cooper
    63 Sprint Hardtop "Dollora"
    63 Super deluxe squire wagon "Mayble"
    * this spot is vacant for future project*

  10. #25
    Ok,
    That explains a lot about the post and the wires. I was thinking just replace the pigtail and the switch but, do you think it's worth removing the wires from the post and see if things clear up?

    Why do you think the turn signals are involved though and now I noticed that in trying out other scenarios when I turn the heater fan switch on the fuel and temp gauges act the same as when you turn the turn signals on!?
    none

  11. #26
    That center screw is the aforementioned ACC (accessory) terminal (see my post above, #18). This terminal goes hot when in the run position and feeds everything you are mentioning failing. It is also the terminal others hook things to as they add... accessories.

    This was the terminal I suggested to focus on, but if these 'extra wires' really go nowhere, and are left-overs from some previous 8-track player or something, disconnect the negative BAT terminal under the hood, remove the nut on this center terminal - and yank the unused wires. If these wires are grounding out, and they are hot - they will possible become an unwelcome light bulb. You may also simply find this center nut is loose, which would be causing the problem as well.

    You're close...
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by tjmcb View Post
    Why do you think the turn signals are involved though and now I noticed that in trying out other scenarios when I turn the heater fan switch on the fuel and temp gauges act the same as when you turn the turn signals on!?
    These all feed off that center ACC screw. If the internal part if the switch, or just the nut on that center terminal is loose... a voltage drop due to high resistance will effect everything running off that circuit.
    Roger Moore

    63 "Flarechero"
    powered by: 347ci stroker | Tremec T5 | 8" 3:45 TracLoc rear



  13. #28
    I know it seems like it all narrows down to that center post and things attached to it.

    I'll get some time to work on it tomorrow and over the long weekend. I think I will try to eliminate the obvious; not needed wires and tighten things up first.

    Worst scenario is a new ignition and pigtail it seems. It is such a pain working behind and under the dash, no room and dim lights!

    Thanks to all, the end seems in sight.
    none

  14. #29
    Though it seems like a pain, if I've got more than an hour or two worth of work under the dash I take 5 minutes to remove the seat. Mines a bench so I call the neighbor to help but only 4 nuts to remove and you've got a comfy spot to lay on your back and work.

    My back starts to growl if I cram myself between the seat and steering wheel for too long!

    Kenny Likins
    Ballard, Seattle, WA
    www.redfalken.com

    `62 Tudor Sedan (`69 200, C4, 8-inch 4-lug 2.79 rearend, Duraspark II, MSD, Weber 32/36 DGEV)

  15. #30


    working under the dash isn't that bad when laying on your back on the floor..
    Just wear safety glasses.. there's years of crap up under them dashes.
    Nathan and Jen Cooper
    63 Sprint Hardtop "Dollora"
    63 Super deluxe squire wagon "Mayble"
    * this spot is vacant for future project*

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