Rainier Falcons > The FalconForum  

Go Back   Rainier Falcons > The FalconForum > General Forums > Tech Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-23-2015, 03:48 PM
Wilbur Wilbur is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 123
Classic Inlines Performance out of biz? Recommendations 4 headers?

I tried to contact Classic Inlines Performance in Mesa Arizona, their number has been disconnected.

Anybody have any knowledge of what happened to them?

I need a set of headers for my Ford 200 inline six, does anyone have any other recommendations?

My exhaust manifold is cracking in many places and time to replace it so I figure I'll go with a header.

Did you notice an improvement with ONLY a header upgrade?

If your bolts holding the factory ex. manifold were rusted, how did you remove them? I've watched youtube vids on how to do so and wonder if others were successful with any of the methods for removing frozen rusted header bolts. Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-23-2015, 03:57 PM
Nathan289's Avatar
Nathan289 Nathan289 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Deer Park
Posts: 1,100
Blog Entries: 1
Owner died..

Supposedly the business was being sold, but so far its been 6 months or so and its stuck in limbo.
__________________
Nathan and Jen Cooper
63 Sprint Hardtop "Dollora"
63 Super deluxe squire wagon "Mayble"
* this spot is vacant for future project*
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:30 PM
Luva65wagon's Avatar
Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
Chapter President
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lynnwood
Posts: 4,372
Blog Entries: 4
Clifford is where the headers came from - I think even from CI:

http://www.shop.cliffordperformance....up-53-0186.htm

Getting out broken studs or even stuck studs, is fun. Soak them good with Kroil or PB Blaster - or whatever else you like - and be careful. If already broken, with the head still on, you'll learn new curse words you never knew existed.

I did notice some improvement with headers, but it may have been that it sounded better and I equated that as a performance boost. You know, like when you put cards in your bike spokes. Or when you ran like BatMan did with you fingers pointing straight out. You were sure these things made you faster.

__________________
Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear


Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-23-2015, 05:50 PM
Wilbur Wilbur is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 123
Thanks for the replies. One way or another I need a new exhaust manifold. Thanks for the recommendations on removing header bolts. I'll post a reply when I am running the new set up and give some feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-23-2015, 11:43 PM
Wilbur Wilbur is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 123
Out of curiosity, I looked up the weight of the original factory log exhaust manifold, it says 15 pounds on the FALCON PARTS website. That seems unusually light.

Have either of you noticed, was the header assembly lighter or heavier than the original factory cast iron exhaust manifold?

I may go to the factory manifold because I see I may have issues with getting an exhaust system made to hook up to the two outlets on the Clifford header, translation: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

Whereas if I buy the factory log style, I only have to bolt my current exhaust up to it, case closed, and it will cost less than half the price of the header.

Anyway, just wondering if you noticed whether the Clifford header was lighter or heavier than the factory log exhaust manifold. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-24-2015, 07:53 AM
Luva65wagon's Avatar
Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
Chapter President
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lynnwood
Posts: 4,372
Blog Entries: 4
I have the single out version, which they have not offered since not soon after I bought mine in 1998. It's not light though and I suspect a dual collector version would be heavier still by a pound or two, not to mention the adapter to get it to dual-into-one on the exhaust pipe side.

I have 2, maybe 3, 6'r exhaust manifolds in my shed. One, I know, came off my Ranchero motor when it was a 200-6. It has a broken ear on the rear-most bolt hole, but I used a thick washer and it held tight. It uses the doughnut gasket. I believe I have one with a flat flange too. As a club member - you can have either or both of them if you come and get them.
__________________
Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-24-2015, 11:11 AM
PhilC PhilC is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 50
Classic Inlines branded headers were not made by Clifford, Mike had outsourced production to another manufacturer. CI did sell the Clifford product years ago, but there were known clearance issues with Clifford's dual outlet header. I know, I have a set I bought from Clifford.

Unless you make other enhancements, add the 3/4 port divider, improve intake flow, etc., the addition of a header alone on the stock 200 won't yield any performance gains. You'd be better off retaining the stock manifold so you don't have to dump a bunch of $$ into a new exhaust system.

I have 3 good used manifolds, no broken ears, and would be happy to sell one plus shipping. PM me for details.
__________________
Phil
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-24-2015, 11:29 AM
Luva65wagon's Avatar
Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
Chapter President
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lynnwood
Posts: 4,372
Blog Entries: 4
Good info. I musta looked back when they did.

I have the port divider with my header install and the single-out version. It was still tight at the frame/idler arm intersection.

Here's a couple pics of the manifold I have. You can see, in the fuzzy sense, the broken ear on the upper rear bolt-hole. It never leaked and I used a pretty thick washer to spread the clamping force gooder.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg enginebay10.JPG (128.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg enginebay9.JPG (134.0 KB, 16 views)
__________________
Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-24-2015, 12:43 PM
PhilC PhilC is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 50
Attached pics shows the clearance issue with the Clifford p/n 53-2112 dual outlet header.

Comments from the .html file of a webpage I had up for years (now gone) dating back to 2007, "In an attempt to resolve the problem on my own, I removed the split style lockwasher from the terminal and replaced it with a star washer. I trimmed all the "excess" terminal and that gained me sufficient clearance to install the header without it touching the terminal. Even after that, I am only able to slip a matchbox cover between the terminal and #5 tube. Not even close to adequate. No modifications were made to the header whatsoever."

Note the clearance between the shock tower and outer tube, more than enough to have offset the tube arrangement for greater clearance at the starter terminal.

EDIT TO ADD: I found pics of the head before and after rebuild showing the 3/4 port divider installed and the "stealth" 200 installed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg clifhdr03.jpg (42.1 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg clifhdr04.jpg (59.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg head01.jpg (60.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg head05.jpg (44.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 200six02.jpg (27.1 KB, 14 views)
__________________
Phil

Last edited by PhilC; 09-24-2015 at 12:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-24-2015, 05:12 PM
ew1usnr's Avatar
ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
Senior Forum User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 841
Hot Rod Six Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luva65wagon View Post
I have the port divider with my header install and the single-out version.
Hello, Roger.

I like the way that you used yellow paint to highlight "FIRING ORDER 523624".

How did you and Phil C divide the center exhaust port? Is that something that inserts and is welded in place?

Thanks, Dennis.
__________________
Dennis Pierson
Tampa, FL
"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-24-2015, 05:46 PM
PhilC PhilC is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ew1usnr View Post
Hello, Roger.

I like the way that you used yellow paint to highlight "FIRING ORDER 523624".

How did you and Phil C divide the center exhaust port? Is that something that inserts and is welded in place?

Thanks, Dennis.
I had my machinist weld the divider in. Some people just insert the divider and rely on interference fit between the manifold or header to hold it in place, but many who did this later complained of the divider loosening in the ports and rattling after use. I wanted none of that, and since the head and engine was being rebuilt anyway, ponied up a few extra $$ to have it permanently welded in place.
__________________
Phil
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-25-2015, 12:31 AM
Wilbur Wilbur is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 123
Wow, you guys are awesome... what a wealth of information and experience among forum members to consult for advice!

Luva65 and PhilC, thanks for the offers on your manifolds. I did consider a used manifold but I have had ten plus Falcons, at least five of them, maybe seven were inline sixes. I believe nearly every one of them had a cracked manifold, well, no, my first Falcon did not, it ran quiet, but most had manifold issues.

So when I thought it over, I figured if I buy an old used manifold it will only be a matter of time before it too cracks. I am still considering a used manifold though so I may contact you.

The reason I may consider a used manifold is that I prefer to avoid "Made in China" and if the retailers are offering such I may just avoid it. Next reason is I get to come see it in person and compare it to my own manifold on the car to make sure it is the exact one I used on my car.

I have a Frankenstein, A 64 Falcon that had a motor swap using a 200 inline six with toploader three speed out of a 70 Maverick (or so I was told) so I won't be sure what to order when I buy from an online retailer. I believe I saw two or three options for the 200 six manifold and I want the correct one. Buying in person can avoid the issue of getting the wrong one.

My only concern with a used one, as mentioned, is how long before it too cracks like all my other inline six manifolds on all the Falcons I've owned in the past thirty years.

I've already decided to avoid the header, too many question marks, too many potential issues and at this moment in my life I'm very busy and cannot afford a $600 plus expense for a manifold.

I actually have a port divider but I never installed it because I never took the head off, heck, when the clutch went I parked the car and it sat for eight to ten years with only an occasional run to keep the car from deteriorating, I rarely need to drive.

Only last summer did I finally get around to doing the job and as you may recall, I ran into infinite problems with inferior parts or the wrong parts being delivered, and then winter hit and the car sat some more. I actually finished the job this summer!

Then the car ran like dirt, a friend helped me rebuild the carb, and now it runs like a top. I bought "Mike's Carbs" rebuild kit and float, no issues, no complaints so far, thirty bucks for the kit with brass float.

I have been running the car around over the past few days, I forgot how much fun it was to drive, MUCH more agile than my V8 Falcon, and much slower, but not slow at all. Part of the loss of acceleration is because I geared the snot out of the car.

I have 2.79:1 rear ratio, 15 inch stock factory steel wheels with very tall HIGH PROFILE snow tires on back, 225/70-15 tires, maybe even 225/75-15 tires.

I built it this way so I could mosey on down the highway at 75 mph without the motor even breathing hard. In 2002 I took this car to St. George Utah, where I lived and worked, then when that job ended, to California for a visit, then drove it back to Washington, and highway cruising was wonderful, 70 plus mph where legal and effortless driving, unlike my V8 Falcon which is screaming its guts out with 13 inch tires and 3.25:1 final drive ratio.

Oh, the inline six returned 29 miles to the gallon from Seattle all the way to Utah, I measured at every fill up and that's the economy I got.

On two certified scales the car weighed 2430 pounds, and with the 200 inline six, that low a weight gets pushed along nicely with nearly 200 ft/lbs of torque and the measly 120 hp, despite the tall gearing.

With the original 13 inch wheels and tires, and original six cylinder rear ratio, the car would light up the tires from a dead stop without dumping the clutch as I recall.

I'll get some recent photos of the car on here soon. It's ugly, I rescued it from a junkyard in 2000, but it's a good car.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-25-2015, 08:56 AM
PhilC PhilC is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 50
Replied to your PM. Primary difference between the OE manifolds is the 60 - 62 used a flat flange for the exhaust mounting surface vs the donut style for 63 and beyond. If your 200 came from a 70 Maverick, and the 70 manifold was used, it is the donut style.

Only other concern is manual/automatic choke, to me it wouldn't matter, but to you it might. If you have a manual choke, you can use either one. There are ways to make an automatic choke work without the heat tube (fab a heat stove) if you're so inclined.

I'll know later today which specific manifolds I have.

As with anything used, no guarantee future failure won't happen, then again it might last the life of the car.
__________________
Phil
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-25-2015, 09:52 PM
Luva65wagon's Avatar
Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
Chapter President
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lynnwood
Posts: 4,372
Blog Entries: 4
I have a port divider, but rather than welding it in, which required brazing it with head still on, I added just a bit of weld to the center of the header so when I bolted it on this weld pushed on the divider. After many years the divider is still tight and using my custom hand-made copper gaskets there has been no leaks either. Can't do that with stock exhaust manifold though.

They claim the port divider improved the performance due to balancing out this massive opening between 3 and 4, which was different than all the other ports. But it has been 15+ years since I read anything about it, so what the actual claim was is a bit foggy. I'm pretty sure the design for the large opening was to help with carb icing, since they didn't have heat risers on the 6 in those years.
__________________
Roger Moore

63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-26-2015, 07:30 PM
Wilbur Wilbur is offline
Active Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 123
Posting some pics of my exhaust manifold, and one cat, not mine, some stray who likes my cooking.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IM000543.jpg (174.3 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IM000542.jpg (124.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg IM000541.jpg (141.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg IM000536.jpg (95.4 KB, 17 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shock absorber recommendations ew1usnr Tech Talk 2 10-29-2013 02:00 AM
Mechanic recommendations? Joe_Falcon_61 Tech Talk 11 05-20-2011 03:10 PM
Looking for the best Rubber, any recommendations? 2erobrd Tech Talk 3 07-05-2010 06:35 PM
Ford 250 inline six with Clifford Performance parts Unregistered Cars and Parts For Sale or Trade 2 12-21-2009 08:45 PM
High Performance Engine for a Mild One Hal Cogburn Cars and Parts For Sale or Trade 11 10-18-2009 11:29 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.