Old Car Safety

[ew1usnr]

[SIZE=4] As most owners know, the single bowl brake cylinder is perfect if nothing goes wrong. But, as some of you know, stuff happens and the dual bowl is better.

I am glad that you guys persuaded me to upgrade my car to the 1967 Mustang dual master cylinder and talked me through the conversion process. That was a huge improvement.

dual cylinder.jpg

The original manual drum brakes are adequate for a car in its stock configuration if they do not get wet, if you don't tail gate the car in front of you, and if you do not drive too fast. Making an emergency stop with drum brakes anywhere above 55 mph is an exciting experience.

The original 90, 101, and 164 horsepower engines were not very powerful and that in itself helped keep the speed within the design capacity of the original brakes. If you drop a bigger, heavier, higher-powered engine in the car, the original brakes will not be sufficient.

The six-cylinder Falcons had 9-inch drums and the 260 V-8 Falcons had 10-inch drums that were also used in the mid-sized V-8 Fairlanes. That is interesting because if the 10-inch brakes are barely marginal by today's standards in a Falcon, they would be even worse in the heavier Fairlane.

One thing that I do like about my drum brakes is the "squuuueeak" sound that they sometimes make when stopping at a red light. That squeak reminds me of elementary school and the sound that the school buses made when they stopped.

[dhbfaster]

I'm with all you guys. Definitely one change leads to another. I definitely like the original falcons, but I really like and appreciate all the resto mods too and even the crazy stuff is now a form of art to me. I can also appreciate how mods give us another way to keep enjoying the hobby too.
Most of all,I really like our clubs attitude on all of it. It's a very accepting club.
I'm comfortable now that I can have a basically original falcon and not worry at all that I have upgraded brakes and added seat belts or a couple other things which will simply allow me to enjoy the car more or not spend crazy money to get something exactly original.

Dennis, maybe the others that know more will chime in, and maybe you tried this already, but I don't think your brakes need to squeak. My memory (I used to work at my Dad's RV dealership) says it's probably related either to brake dust or rubbing of the shoes against the back plate, or worn out. I think yours are probably not worn out? Also, if you got new shoes when you had yours done, if they don't fit up just right sometimes it causes some vibration which means squeaks. If you got new shoes, I would go back and tell them they squeak too much, if you didn't, I would remove the drums, clean everything up really good with brake cleaner, put a dab of anti squeak grease on the back plate where the shoes rub (not on the braking surface), reassemble, and squeaks might be gone...good luck.

[ew1usnr]

If you got new shoes, I would go back and tell them they squeak too much, if you didn't, I would remove the drums, clean everything up really good with brake cleaner, put a dab of anti squeak grease on the back plate where the shoes rub (not on the braking surface), reassemble, and squeaks might be gone...good luck.

Hello, Don.

The brakes were one of my first "big ticket" repair items.

I bought the car in July 2012, and it looked like it had been sitting somewhere for ten years. The tires were not worn, but they were ten years old and dry rotted. In August 2012, I had a new set of tires installed. I looked at the brakes while they were changing the tires. They looked OK, but .... I noticed that the self adjuster on the right front brakes was backwards:

front right.jpg

I added that to my "to do list" and kept driving the car. Then I noticed that I was frequently adding brake fluid to the reservoir. In December 2012 I took it to Meineke and told them about the self-adjusters and losing fluid and asked them to check the brakes. Well, ... They called back and said that my wheel cylinders were leaking and the rear drums were grooved and could not be turned.

The bill turned out to be: He had repacked the front wheel bearings, added two front brake wheel seals (parts $14.78), two front wheel cylinders ($40.72), two rear wheel cylinders ($36.24), a left rear self-adjuster cable ($19.85), rear brake shoes ($36.85), two rear brake drums ($137.36), and rear brake hardware ($18.40). Total = $348.10 parts/shop supplies + $254.70 labor + tax = $690.15. Wow! It was better than the alternative, though, of running out of brake fluid and crashing into something.

And yes, I could have done it myself. I hate working on brakes, though. It is a messy pain to bleed the brakes and it is a royal pain to cock those springs into position without the correct brake tools. Plus, the springs will wreck everything if they are not in correctly and pop out of place. I preferred to pay the labor and let them do it.

That was about 12,000 miles ago and they had just replaced the rear drums and shoes. How long do a set of brake shoes typically last?

The squeaky brakes are not a critical item, but I will save your description of what to check and have the guys at Meineke take a look at them whenever I am there next. I am due for an oil change in about 300 miles. I could let them change the oil and clean up the brakes at the same time.

Here is a completely unrelated photo that I like. A trio of hotrodders from 1924. The expressions on their faces are great.

Hot rodders 1924.jpg

[ew1usnr]

Note to Larry:

Send this link to your brother with the Fairlane. Here is an incredible 1964 Thunderbolt tribute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj29Zf2Uua0

Wow! That car is cool. It remotely pertains to the topic of "Old car safety" because he says at the end that "cars like this will never be built again" because the new cars are safer.

Oh, geeze, though, I would love to take that jazzed up Fairlane for a spin.

[BadBird]

I wish you could ride with my brother in his Fairlane. We will find out if his car or mine is faster this year if the Lord is willing. I just have to install my new rear end, line lock and shift light.

His car has a 460 at over 400 HP, turns in the mid 12's at 107mph. He just changed the rear end to a 4.56 to get better times, we'll see how that works out.

I can tell you, that I absolutely love opening the e-cutouts on my Falcon and stomping the gas. There isn't much to compare to the feeling.

My brother Jerry and I saw a bunch of the 64 Thunderbolts when they first came out when we lived in New Jersey and raced at ATCO dragway in the 60's. I can still see them in my mind. They behaved differently than all the other cars. When they came off the line, they raised up at all four wheels. There were no other cars that could beat them in 64. I have heard that there were a few Falcons and Comets that had the 427, but never saw one.

[dhbfaster]

There are a lot of interesting takes on safety advancements.
The article in the link below includes some (right or wrong...not sure) I never thought of like...

radial tires (one more reason not to spend the extra money on the Coker's)
safety glass
Unleaded fuel

http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-most-imp...tiv-1462200446

[SmithKid]

I was at the Arlington (Washington) drag strip (actually the airport) as a spectator back in the day, and often saw 427 Comets and 289 Cobras run there. As I recall, one Comet was from Yankee Mercury. The Comets had a similar suspension that lifted the entire car while under power. I thought it was neat to see them bounce during the gear change. I figured that lifting motion helped the traction. I marveled at the cars at the time, and I guess I still do in my memory!

[BadBird]

Don, that is some great information. All those safety advancements can be seen throughout the racing industry refinements.

If you go back and look at the NASCAR, Drag Racing, or all racing for that matter you can see them changing the cars.

If you look at crash records of NASCAR going back to the 50's you will see crashes that killed the drivers where as today they wouldn't have got a bump.

For those of us that drove the cars back in the 60's we can see all the technology improvements and see what they have accomplished. The padded dash saved lives, seat belts improved on that, three points belts improved on that, air bags went further.

I can remember trying to stop my 57 chevy in a hard stop and remember the improvements of the anti lock brakes. There is no comparison and thousands if not more have survived by just that improvement.

I can verify the improvement of the collapsible steering column. I was driving a mountain buggy (old 52 Plymouth) dual rear wheels, made into the buggy, no doors, just for hunting. Hit ice in the mountains going way to fast of course and slammed into a tree of the side of a cliff. Broke the car in half, I went through the windshield, broke off the steering wheel, caved in the dash, woke up laying 50 feet below the car. 7 broken ribs, glass cuts all over, but the steering column did the most damage along with the two radio knob posts.

Then we have the tires, the suspension changes, the side impact air bags, major changes to the structures to improve side impacts and collapse like accordions from front impacts, side air bags, the list goes on and on and on.

The improvements are being made every year and I read an article where Volvo believes that in the very near future they will have a car that is fatality free. Not sure if that is possible but more power to them.

Thank God we have the old cars, but there cannot be a discussion concerning safety related to old versus new. The engineering is getting updated daily.

1910 versus 1960 saw a few improvements in safety, but actually, not that many. Look at the difference in the next 50 years. Amazing. What will the future years entail. Probably make us stop driving and ride the stupid *&%* busses or trains or ??? Larry

[ew1usnr]

Making an emergency stop with drum brakes anywhere above 55 mph is an exciting experience.

I drive The Wonder Falcon to and from work everyday at around 45 mph and do not have a lot of experience at making sudden stops with it at higher speeds. I was provided an opportunity to try that out while driving north on I-75 yesterday afternoon.

There were orange barrels along the edge of the highway and a state trooper was parked on the shoulder of the road with his lights flashing to indicate that this was a construction zone. There had not been an accident, no one had been pulled over, and nothing was blocking the road, but people saw the flashing lights, hit their brakes, and traffic came to a complete halt. I had been buzzing along at 75 mph when I suddenly saw a mass of brake lights ahead and applied my brakes, and had to press harder, and then harder. The distance between me and the car ahead was diminishing rapidly and my wheels were just beginning to lock (bump bump bump bump) when the Falcon finally stopped.

Whew! It takes a lot of room for the drum brakes to get that car stopped from 75 mph, especially in comparison to what you would expect from a newer car with power anti-lock four-wheel disc brakes.

Post-script:
I just looked up some figures and was surprised.

A Motor Trend road test for a then new 1963 six cylinder Falcon convertible reported that the brakes "performed exceptionally well" and "60-mph panic stops were accomplished in 126.5 feet".

A recent Motor Trend road test for a 2016 Mustang GT reported "BRAKING, 60-0 MPH, 109 ft".
See at bottom of article: http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...t-test-review/

The 2016 Mustang GT with four 13-inch disc brakes stopped only 14% shorter than the 1963 Falcon. Huh. That makes the Falcon look impressive.

Maybe an accumulation of brake dust has made my brakes less grippy. I will have them inspected and cleaned this month when I have the oil changed.

[ew1usnr]

I came across this picture of a 1961 Ranchero.

Total 1961 Ranchero daily driver.jpg

It is interesting in that while the front end was completely destroyed, the car appears to have maintained its structural integrity from the firewall back and passenger space is intact. The windshield is not even cracked.

The Ranchero protected its driver and he is now selling parts from the car on e-bay.

[Luva65wagon]

Very interesting the stuff you can and can't see. A power brake booster? A 5.0 roller motor. No clue about the seat belts or if he collapsed the steering wheel.

Do you know him? What the heck did he hit?

[ew1usnr]

Do you know him? What the heck did he hit?

Hello, Roger.

The e-bay seller is in Hornbrook, California. I do not know him. I just read the following in an e-bay ad: "I totaled my national award winning 61 ranchero daily driver (3rd at the San Ramon Nationals) so I don’t need these parts from it any more. I’m not going to build another Ranchero so all my extra parts must go."

See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-1961-19...pWnsHv&vxp=mtr

Before:
1961 Ranchero.jpg

After:
1961 Ranchero in garage.jpg

This photo of a 1962 Falcon shows the importance of seat belts. You can see where the driver's and passenger's heads hit the windshield.

1962 Front Collision.jpg

[SmithKid]

I contacted him thru eBay asking about bed trim. In his communication, he stated that..... "Three point seat belts kept me in the bucket seat even when the car rolled after impact with the 18 wheeler." Although I don't understand how the car rolled without taking out the windshield. Makes me VERY happy that Roger installed (with my help) 3-point belts in my car too.

[Luva65wagon]

Makes me VERY happy that Roger installed (with my help) 3-point belts in my car too.

Gene - sad to say you'll only know how well we did...

...well, let's hope you'll never need to know.

[ew1usnr]

Whew! It takes a lot of room for the drum brakes to get that car stopped from 75 mph

I took The Wonder Falcon in to have the oil changed and I also mentioned a tic tick tick sound and my squeaky brakes.

The tick tick tick sound was from a leaking "doughnut" gasket where the exhaust pipe joins the manifold.

The brakes were squeaking because the front shoes were worn down almost to the rivets. I had new brake shoes installed, the front drums turned, the front wheel bearings packed. and the brake lines flushed. These are the new brake shoes:

IMG_0297.jpg

IMG_0296.jpg

Yay! Now the car should stop more quickly. I will pick the car up this evening.