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Old 10-25-2011, 05:39 PM
Hughs63 Hughs63 is offline
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302 Install

Hello one and all!!! I am getting my hands on a Ford 302 running engine. I am wondering what items and modifications I need to put on my list to do a proper comprehensive 302 replacement for my 170. I presently have a T5 transmission in the car.
I hope I get to learn from your experience and knowledge.
Hugh
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:47 PM
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Hugh, the first thing on your list should be to get June's approval to spend the next six months in the garage and showing up for dinner smelling like gas and oil.
Jeff
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:59 PM
Hughs63 Hughs63 is offline
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Work around

I have a work around. I work swing shift. I will be doing most of my work during the day in this rainy season before I get ready to go to work. She works a day job so stinking and being dirty isn't really a problem, she is used to it but I don't think she likes it. The exception is on weekends when my son will be around wanting to do "Car Stuff"! Even my 13 year old daughter likes to come to the garage and be my "Tool Girl" sometimes.That part of it is great.
The real plan is to get together all the parts and pieces I would need for a straight six to 302 V8 swap. Suspension, drive train, Diff, Axels? What else? Do I need to swap any or all of those things at the same time? Go ahead and do the disk brake conversion at this time or later? Is it greatly easier during the swap out or can it be done with a minimum of interference on it's own?
I really intend to have a plan and the parts/pieces staged in the Garage-mahal before I start this future phase of the car.
Hugh
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:16 PM
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Hugh,

There's probably as many ways to approach this as there are Falcons left driving the streets.

Being this was not a V8 car, you could short-cut a lot of headaches by looking for a 65 v8 car that is a rust bucket and salvage all the running gear, suspension, engine mounts - and put these in your car. I suggest the 65 parts because they fit a 63 and are more abundant. New front-end parts are also cheaper and more abundant for the parts you do need to replace. They are mostly the same as the 65 Mustang, so you can use the abundance of those suppliers for much of it. The drag-link is the only unique part and you'll need a 65 Falcon part.

The fast alternative is to use all the 4-lug parts if they are in really good shape - and you plan to drive it nicely. The 4-lug rear-end will likely be the first thing to go, if it does. And then again it may last a very long time. You can then slowly swap things out with the V8 parts as time and money become available.

Many will shy away from this saying the 6-cylinder parts are too wimpy, which of course they are, but again it's all in how you drive the car. A small-block V8 is barely a 100 pounds heavier than a straight 6. And we never think about loading a few passengers weighing 400 pounds into a car with a 6'r. I don't think the front-end will break. Brakes are wimpy too if you get it going fast and expect to stop.

For sure, no matter what - go for a heavier front sway bar. This alone will make a ton of difference.

Of course, with either of these options you will need to get the V8 frame and motor mounts, which you can find for around $100-200 on ebay and some Falcon vendors. The I6 mounts will not work.

The all-out hold-nothing-back-swap will be the "cut out the shock-towers;" convert to Mustang II or some other similar front suspension; rack and pinion; a 8" or 9" rear-end; discs all around; frame connectors. We're talking big-budget, steal from the kids' college fund, here. I'd guess $5-10K just in basic swap parts and a pretty heavy fabrication schedule.

So, as in all things, knowing what your budget is, what your schedule and skills are - and what you hope to have thanks to this "running 302" - are all things we'd need to know to best suggest something for you to do.

Personally, I just did the first thing I suggested when I started my Crazy Ranchero project - but installing a V8 was not part of this phase of my plan. But all the structure was added to have a V8 car (I happen to have 2 motors I could build). It's ostensibly a V8 car... running a I6 - for now. I was lucky to find a guy parting out a 65 V8 car and got all the parts I needed for only $400. If you can find an entire car, as I said, that was too rusty to restore -- you may get a smokin' deal on all the parts you need.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:45 PM
Hughs63 Hughs63 is offline
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Would a '77 granada be a good donor car for the front end? Rear end? It has a 302 in it , used as a daily driver presently.
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:47 PM
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Roger,
By the way, Thank you very much for taking the time to fill me in on those details. I found a 65 falcon on Craigslist for 600 bucks being sold as a parts car. I am waiting on the email from the guy who placed the ad for details.
Take car and have a great day,
Hugh.
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:42 PM
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I've currently got my garage filled with a 302 on a stand , a T5 on the floor, and a '63
V8 Falcon. I got a case of mission creep, and spent 'way more than I needed to on
the motor, so I'm trying to throttle back on some other goodies and actually finish some time before I retire.

Here's a guy on "some other site" in the middle of the same project.
I'm waiting for your updates -

http://www.tffn.net/phpBB3/viewtopic...2184&start=120
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughs63 View Post
Would a '77 granada be a good donor car for the front end? Rear end? It has a 302 in it , used as a daily driver presently.
The Granada can be a start. The spindles and disk brakes will swap over. You'll need V8 control arms and steering. If I recall, the upper control arm was the same in 63 for both six and eight. You would probably be wise to rebuild the original if you want to reuse it. All of the 65 Falcon V8 manual steer parts are available new. The Granada steering won't work. You can use the old steering linkage with some outer tie rod adapters from Mustang Steve.

The Granada rear end is too wide but you can have it narrowed to fit. Ask Kenny where he had his done. The Granada spring plates won't work. They have staggered shocks. You would need to find a set of spring plates from a later 60s Mustang.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughs63 View Post
Thank you very much for taking the time to fill me in on those details.
No problem. Hopefully that is a V8 car you see on Craigslist. Finding one of those that you could buy - cheap - would save you a world of hassles.

I know, as Patrick indicated, the Grenada spindles and brake rotors (front) will bolt right onto the 65 V8 Falcon upper and lower control arms. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the outer tie-rod has to be the Grenada part too? Or you use a taper/cone shim? I don't know what the verdict is on this swap, but I've heard said you get a little bump-steer when you use them. Maybe Patrick knows more about that. They seem highly sought after for this conversion, so it must not be all that bad. Maybe it gets worse, or better, with the Shelby drop - which is where you drill new holes in the shock tower to lower and set-back the upper control arm about an inch in both directions. Never done one, so a bit clueless there.

Not that I ever try to send someone over to the wacky world of TFFN, Ed's link, or others there, may be be of help too.

As for the rear-end, shortening and adapting a Grenada rear-end to fit the Falcon is probably cost prohibitive. There are plenty rear-ends out there that are a bolt-in, which you should investigate before doing that. You'd want to find someplace local to you, too, since shipping a rear-end around isn't going to be easy or cheap.

Let us know what the CL car ends up being. Hopefully it's a V8 car.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:55 PM
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The Granada spindles do require the use of Granada outer tie rod ends but only when switching to the Falcon V8 steering parts. If keeping the six cylinder steering, one could use the adapters from Mustang Steve's site.

http://www.mustangsteve.com/tierodbushings.html

The Granada spindle also to add some bump steer due to the change in steering arm location. There are some aftermarket kits to correct this if you care. It's really not that big of a problem for just cruising around. If you're building a track car, you'll want them.

I'm not a big fan of keeping the lighter duty steering with a V8 under the hood. The V8 center link actually has a small amount of drop below the oil pan. It keeps the steering from hitting the bottom of the pan at full lock to lock steering.

I good choice for a rear end would be a V8 Falcon or any Maverick. The Falcon had the shortest housing Ford offered in an eight inch. The Maverick is exactly 1" longer which can fit but with some tight wheel and tire clearance.
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