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Old 03-26-2015, 03:04 AM
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ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
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What was the original radiator?

Did 1963 Falcons with a V-8s originally come with two row radiators?

I read that 1964 Mustangs with V-8s originally came with two row radiators and that three row radiators were recommended as a replacement for additional cooling.

I ask because I currently have a three-row with a one-inch fan spacer that gives me a one-inch clearance from the radiator.

But .... it appears that the car originally used a two-inch fan spacer and that means that the original radiator
had to have been one inch thinner that what I currently have.
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 03-27-2015 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:35 AM
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Luva65wagon Luva65wagon is offline
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There is a lot more room between a radiator and fan (technically I mean water pump) in a Mustang.

I'm not sure what a '63 came with. My guess is you could have maybe spec'd it with a heavy radiator, but if that were the case there would have been a part number for it. Finding that parts drawing, like you did for the transmission mount, would probably show it if it existed.

Also, I was digging in the loft for something and came across my bag-o-tranny-mount parts and I actually have a spring with the extra s-bracket... but all the bolts in the bag were the same. So not sure if I'll be able to help much on that one.
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63 "Flarechero"
powered by: '65 289-V8 | T5 | 8" TracLoc rear
63.5 Hardtop (previously MacDee's "Freddie")
powered by: Classic Inlines 200-6 | C4 | 7.25 rear



Last edited by Luva65wagon; 03-26-2015 at 09:36 AM. Reason: added the technically bit...
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Old 03-27-2015, 02:50 AM
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Radiator replacement question

I want to change my radiator.

Question: When I unplug the transmission lines from the bottom of the radiator, will transmission fluid gravity flow from the transmission and start flowing out the lines?

Or, is the fluid pumped through the cooling lines by a pump inside the transmission? Meaning that fluid will not begin pouring out of the transmission when I unhook the cooling lines (unless I start the engine).

I put a rebuilt three row radiator in my car 2 1/2 years ago and it has been a lemon. I have had it out twice already to have leaks repaired and it started leaking again. Plus, the last time it was worked on, they told me that six of the tubes were plugged with solder and could not be cleared.

Rather than having it repaired for a third time, I decided to replace it and ordered another radiator this past Tuesday. If it is delivered today or tomorrow I can install it this weekend.

I ordered the following from Advance Auto Parts: a Carquest or ToughOne Radiator, Part No. 433259, Product Application: 1963 Ford Falcon - Exact fit for this vehicle. See: http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/c...259/5893720-P# Specifications: Core height 17 ”, Core thickness 2”, Core width 16 3/8”, Inlet top right 1 ”, Outlet bottom right 1 ”, Three rows, Transmission cooler, Tube size 2. Price: $137.99 - $20.70 with 15% off code C521+ free shipping = $117.29.

Carquest or ToughOne Radiator No. 433259 7.jpg
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Dennis Pierson
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 03-27-2015 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:01 PM
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Jeff W Jeff W is offline
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In my experience, only a tiny bit dribbles out of the lines when disconnected. You will want to put some cardboard down to catch the drips (it drips out of the radiator tank as well).

Check the transmission fluid level when all is swapped over and pumped full. It must be a tiny tank in the radiator as I have never seen much of a drop in level after loosing the amount stored in the radiator tank. I would like to open one up some day and have a look.
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:33 PM
Norm1 Norm1 is offline
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Ordered one. Great deal.

Their fitment chart is incomplete as it does not show my 65 Rancher0. Oreilly's does and has the same part #.

Yes, you will only get a few drops from the trans. cooler. don't know how much is left in the cooler but will find out soon.
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Old 03-28-2015, 07:23 PM
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ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
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Success!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff W View Post
Check the transmission fluid level when all is swapped over and pumped full.
The installation of the new radiator went well and without any surprises and without making too big of a mess.
1-DCP_0073.jpg

It was a little bit more complicated because I have a coolant overflow tank and an auxiliary transmission cooler in front of the radiator, but everything went back together OK.
Overflow tank.jpg

Hayden 678 Rapid-Cool transmission cool.jpg

I started the car and didn't see any obvious leaks and then took it on a 21-mile test drive. I checked the transmission fluid level with the car warm, running, and in Park and it was at mid-range between the Low and Full marks. The air temperature was 60 and the temperature gauge stayed at one-quarter. The ThermoCap read 140 when we came back home.
ThermoCap 2470S 13 PSI-SLVR from Amazon for .27.jpg

The radiator did not get hot enough to expand fluid into the overflow tank. The transmission temperature stayed below 160.
BMM 80212 Trans Temp Gauge.jpg

Everything stayed cool. The temperatures will be back in the upper 80's this coming week and the real test will be to see how hot it gets in the stop and go traffic on the way home from work.

Note: The radiator delivery box said Carquest, Made in China. Distributed by CQ Sourcing, Inc., 4721 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616. CARQUEST Auto Parts is owned and operated by Advance Auto Parts, Inc., the largest automotive aftermarket parts provider in North America. The Advance Auto review site calls it a Ready-Rad radiator, which seems to be the same as Vista-Pro, Go/Dan, Heatbuster, and Proliance. They are all owned by Centrum Equities Acquisition. See: https://trademarks.justia.com/owners...on-llc-193508/

I asked if the radiator was new or re-manufactured:
Thank you for choosing Advance Auto Parts. A representative will be with you shortly. Thank you for holding.
Thank you for chatting with Advance Auto Parts and Batteries. You are now chatting with Marge. How may I assist you today?
Marge: Hello! How may I help you today?
You: Hello, is the radiator Part No. 433259 a new part or a re-manufactured part?
Marge: I understand your request. I'll do my best to help you out today.
Marge: May I have your name, please?
You: Dennis.
Marge: Good morning Dennis.
Marge: This is a new radiator.
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Dennis Pierson
Tampa, FL
"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 03-29-2015 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:19 PM
Norm1 Norm1 is offline
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I installed my radiator and then did a clearance check.

The fan would have hit my transmission cooling lines.

Had to drill new mounting holes to lower the rad. and give an 1/8" of clearance.

Always measure and double check for this universal /fits many crap.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:45 PM
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ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
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Clearance is important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm1 View Post
I installed my radiator and then did a clearance check.
The fan would have hit my transmission cooling lines. Had to drill new mounting holes to lower the rad. and give an 1/8" of clearance. Always measure and double check for this universal /fits many crap.
Hello, Norm.

I ran into the same thing. I could not lower the radiator by any significant amount, so I downsized from a 17" fan to a smaller 16 1/4" fan blade (the one with red tips) that I bought off e-bay. The change in diameter seems to be due to going from a round tip to a flat tip and probably does not change the volume of air moved by much (I think).

17.5 and 16.25 inch fan blades.jpg


The smaller fan gives 5/8" clearance from the lower radiator hose and transmission lines. I used a one-inch spacer to get a one-inch clearance between the fan and radiator.

I use a "ThermoCap" to monitor the temperature of the radiator.

ThermoCap1.jpg

My old radiator would measure 210 degrees when I came home from work and the new radiator has been reading 180 degrees. The dashboard temperature gauge stays more at mid range while in stop and go traffic, where it tended to move to three-quarters with the old radiator. I have been happy with the new radiator.

Dennis.
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Dennis Pierson
Tampa, FL
"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 04-09-2015 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 04-09-2015, 09:10 PM
dhbfaster dhbfaster is offline
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Nice install Dennis. I really like that thermo cap. I've never seen one of those.
Those Fomoco logo hoses are really nice too. Where did you find those?
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:42 AM
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ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
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Radiator Hoses

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhbfaster View Post
Nice install Dennis. I really like that thermo cap. I've never seen one of those.
Those Fomoco logo hoses are really nice too. Where did you find those?
Hello, Don.

I ordered those from Mac’s Antique Auto Parts:

Radiator hose set – Script type – 260 & 289 V8 Falcon Part #: 41-18532-1 $34.95

260 Radiator Hoses 64-18532.jpg

See: http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_fa...v8-falcon.html

Your little red "Volkswagen Fighter" Falcon is going to be fantastic when you get it back together. I am amazed at the amount of attention to detail that you have put into the rebuild and I really like how you are keeping everything original.

Dennis.
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Dennis Pierson
Tampa, FL
"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 04-10-2015 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 04-10-2015, 10:41 AM
dhbfaster dhbfaster is offline
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Thanks Dennis....I think you need to drive out to the Mini show here this year to see it...and meet everyone.
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Old 04-11-2015, 04:53 AM
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ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
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Transmission cooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm1 View Post
I installed my radiator and then did a clearance check.
The fan would have hit my transmission cooling lines.
Hello, Norm.

I need to add another note about the transmission cooler - it may not be adequate.

The Fordomatic for the 144 ThriftPower engines was air cooled and they worked with no problem.
The Fordomatic for the 170 Special engines was air cooled plus it had liquid cooling lines to the radiator. That worked great.

Then Ford had one of their "Better Ideas" and the Fordomatic for the 260 Challenger V-8 was liquid cooled only.
Why? Why did Ford eliminate probably more than half of the transmission cooling when they went to a larger engine?
A mechanical engineer friend of mine at work said that maybe they did it to make the car quieter because air cooled transmissions made a sound. Hmmm.

Anyway, the space between the transmission lines on the replacement radiator is six inches. In between them is six-inch long concentric tube transmission cooler. Here is a picture of a similar (but probably longer) concentric tube cooler from a 1998 Honda Accord:

5 Concentric tube cooler 98 Accord.jpg

Maybe the original Ford radiator had a larger tube, but for with the new radiators and a V-8 Fordomatic, the only cooling that is being provided is from a six-inch tube that sits in a bath of 200 degree coolant. Transmission fluid should not exceed 175 degrees. The cooler on the radiator is just not sufficient.

Transmission Operating Temperature.jpg

I suspected that my transmission was overheating on long trips and had a mechanic add a transmission temperature gauge sensor on the line coming off the torque converter. That is the point at which the transmission fluid is hottest. This let me see what was going on and it confirmed that the transmission was getting way too hot.
Trans temp sensor lower.JPG

Upper and lower tubes.JPG

BMM 80212 Trans Temp Gauge.jpg

Then I added an over-sized (*see below) auxiliary transmission cooler in front of my radiator and now the transmission temperature stays at 160 degrees and it should run forever. Ford (in my opinion) really should have retained the air cooling feature on the V-8 Fordomatics.

Hayden Automotive 678 Rapid-Cool Plate and Fin Transmission Cooler.jpg

*Hayden Automotive "Made in Australia" (Yay!) #678 Rapid-Cool Plate and Fin auxiliary transmission fluid cooler, 11 in. x 9.5 in. x 0.75 in. (104.5 sq. in). “This is a premium style transmission cooler kit. Coolers are a compact plate and fin design. 19 millimeter thick-hose barb fittings offer secure attachment. All rapid coolers include the patented “Flow path design” which increases heat transfer while minimizing pressure drop.” The Plate and Fin Transmission Cooler is 33% smaller than comparable tube and fin designs. This unit is sized for pick-up trucks and vans, class "C" motor homes, travel trailers to 24 feet, and GVWR up to 24,000 pounds, towing up to 5,000 pounds.
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Dennis Pierson
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 04-11-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-2015, 07:49 PM
Norm1 Norm1 is offline
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I won't be going on medium/long trips, just local.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:26 PM
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ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
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Super-Cooled Falcon.

Attachment 4936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm1 View Post
I installed my radiator and then did a clearance check.
The fan would have hit my transmission cooling lines. Had to drill new mounting holes to lower the rad. and give an 1/8" of clearance. Always measure and double check for this universal /fits many crap.
I had initially used the bolt holes that came with the radiator and installed a 16.25" fan to give adequate clearance from the transmission cooler lines. But ...., in stop and go traffic my temperature gauge would creep up.

I took the radiator out and drilled and filed to extend the mounting holes about 1/2-inch higher. I laid 1/16” plastic strips as spacers on the cross member below and lowered the new radiator into place. I pushed the radiator down to the tops of the new drilled bolt holes and bolted it in place. I had to remove the right horn to reach the lower right radiator support bolt. The radiator was lowered as much as it can be without touching the cross member and a credit card can be slid between it and the base of the radiator. The bottom of the radiator is really close to the cross member but is not touching. The radiator was moved down about ” and that provided a sufficient 3/8” clearance between the tips of of a 17 1/2" fan and the transmission lines to allow its installation.

This shows the previously installed 16 1/4" fan:
New Radiator 002.jpg

Here is the re-positioned radiator and the newly installed 17 1/2" fan. It gives better coverage of the radiator:
1-DCP_0164.jpg

2-DCP_0165.jpg

The newly installed 17 ” provides a 16% larger area (18% larger effective area when subtracting the 4.5” diameter hub) than the 16 ” fan. The 17 ” fan was used on 1967 Mustangs with 289 engines and should be more than sufficient for a 260.
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Dennis Pierson
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 06-16-2015 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 06-30-2015, 05:16 PM
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ew1usnr ew1usnr is offline
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Der Red Baron

After I had installed the 17.5-inch fan, I wished that I had painted it.

Before:
1-DCP_0163.jpg

So, I took the fan out, sanded, primed, and sprayed it with satin black Rust-Oleum engine paint. Then, while I was at it, I painted the tips red to make my Falcon look like a fighter plane. I had at first tried spraying the tips with Dupli-Color Ford Red engine paint to match my valve covers, but it dissolved the base black paint. I sanded the tips off one more time and then painted the tips with water based gloss red latex enamel.
Painted 17.5-inch Fan 2 6-30-15 002.jpg

The red tips make the fan visible while it is whirling around:
Painted 17.5-inch Fan 2 6-30-15 003.jpg

I tried waving a tissue paper in front of the engine while it was idling to get an idea of how much air was being drawn through the radiator. It seems like quite a lot. I could let go of the tissue and it would get sucked up against the front surface of the radiator.
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Dennis Pierson
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"The Wonder Falcon"

'63 Futura Hardtop (260, Ford-O-Matic, bench seat)

Last edited by ew1usnr; 06-30-2015 at 06:17 PM.
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