Strange rattle/vibration sound

**Gitanesteel** · August 15th, 2018, 08:06 AM

Figured it was time for an update vs. hijacking Corbin's thread.

My mother-in-law is probably getting tired of the car with a gasser look sitting in her driveway - at least I have the cover on it.

It's been a little frustrating with the slow progress. We just got back from a trip to London and the shop had agreed to order the 331 stroker kit but that hasn't happened. The biggest problem for me is obviously the fact that I ignored learning about working on engines as a kid when my dad was working on all the cars we had. It never interested me, now I wish it had since it will cost a lot more money for me to get this done. Live and learn - and learn I will definitely do for other items.

Some of the things I've found out: the engine rebuild by a guy in our home town back in the 90's had some issues. The crank would turn easy and then have resistance, the rods had material ground out of them poorly in an effort to balance so they were shot. The bearing caps and cylinder walls were scored slightly but nothing that can be taken care of. Once I saw that it was pretty clear the engine needed a rebuild. It has already been bored .030 over so it's basically a 293 ci engine.

From there it was how to proceed. I have pondered, and had a conversation with Jeff Pfaff in Selah who is working through his own 331 build for his 65, going with a crate engine. I had a long discussion with the mechanic yesterday and he commented several times "your car is just too nice to throw a crate motor in". While it's going to be more expensive he said the block is in great shape and he builds for reliability so why not use the original. Yes, it will be modified, but at least it will look original. The mechanic seems genuinely excited about the build. In fact, I mentioned yesterday that I am planning on towing the car to Colorado for the FCA national meet next summer. He just looked at me and said, "why? Drive it there, I build them for that." I responded I like my AC in the truck.

So, the block is in Yakima at one machine shop for initial work. I'll be ordering the 331 pre-balanced stroker kit - 90% sure it will be a Scat kit so we can get the build underway. I have already ordered headers and a fan shroud, to aid the cooling, from Melvin's Classics. I'm not going to look at any changes to the radiator until I see how this thing does once it's put together. The mechanic agrees with that approach. We haven't discussed a cam yet other than a flat tappet one. I'll deal with that once the build starts. I don't need a real "lopey" cam with a car that sounds like it could die.

The one issue I struggled with is using the stock heads, which I am doing, as I know aluminum ones could present some better breathing. But, I'm also trying to keep my wife happy and controlling the costs somewhere.

I won't have the car for the mini-regional but there is a little light at the end of the tunnel. My target is 300-350 hp but very streetable so I can use it like a daily driver in the summer.

**Luva65wagon** · August 15th, 2018, 02:55 PM

Scott,

If this 289 is already at .030 over, how much further will they go? I have a .060 289 in the Ranchero and it may be why it likes to run hotter than I'd like it to. I've read in multiple places you should have the 260/289 blocks checked for wall thickness as the bore increases as these were known to be a little on the thin side in some cases. Basically, everything I've read says not to assume it will be OK just because you can get the parts to do it. It was also suggested, if keeping the original block was important - and it was determined to be a little thin - you could also sleeve it to go back to zero.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017...sonic-testing/

Also, a great deal of the heat made in the engine is from friction, not just combustion, and lot of that is with a flat tappet cam and lifters. Because I have issues with my 289 anyway, and because I'm not attached to it, when (and if) I ever get a garage to work in again I'm probably going to track down a roller motor and, if needed, rebuild it. You can convert the early blocks to use a roller cam, but it requires an offset cam to get the lobes down low enough, while maintaining lift, to get the roller lifter bits installed up-top.

Only passing on what I've read, since I have one. You're mileage may vary.

**Gitanesteel** · August 15th, 2018, 03:03 PM

Thanks Roger. If I understand the mechanic we're not doing any additional boring. I'm ordering pistons that are .030 over which is where the block is now. Granted I don't have a ton of knowledge on engines and all the details of a build so I'm trusting the mechanic on his advice. He's done quite a few Ford engines including a recently completed 429 Cobra Jet

**Gitanesteel** · June 13th, 2019, 08:33 AM

Finally an update - as in, the car is back home.

It's been a 13 month process primarily because nothing was going to happen during the winter and the car just sat in my mother-in-laws garage. Fortunately she likes me so it wasn't a problem.

During that time the block was sent to Yakima for machine work, tolerances, etc. The news was the block was in great shape.

The car was towed back to the shop in early March and the build back started. It was assembled and disassembled a couple of times to make sure everything fit well. We upgraded from a 2" inch exhaust to 2 1/4" and 14" Turbo Thrush mufflers. Headers were installed and a drop bracket was needed to clear the power steering cylinder. Even with that they had to do some modifications to the drive side header to clear.

The Scat 331 stroker kit came with a 164 tooth flex plate. Well, that's too big for the stock bell housing and the only option we could find was a drag racing bell housing at over $600. It's quite thick and when they first installed it about the bottom third of the torque converter and flex plate were visible. I told the shop if I was drag racing that would be fine but not as a "daily" driver so they fashioned a cover for the bell housing that looks quite good.

The shop stated the torque converter is a little "heavy" which affects it's low speed acceleration. Anyone know what he means by heavy? Hit 2400 rpm's and up and the car really jumps.

The camshaft is a Comp Cams Dual Energy. It has a nice sound with very little "lope".

One limiting factor I have are stock heads vs. aluminum. I was trying to control some costs which didn't work very well because I can't do the work myself (I have no knowledge of this stuff).

The mechanic calls at one point and asked if I wanted high rise aluminum valve covers or spacers for the stock one. Well, the engine is supposed to be black/gold so I told him go with the stock valve covers and spacers. I show up to the shop the following Monday and his wife says - "there's your engine, doesn't it look great". I turn around and there it is - all blue (which is what it was before). My reply was "it's blue". I had it in my notes and had talked to him three times about the color but apparently should have reminded him again 10 months after the fact. By then I just wanted the car back so I left it blue. Since it's not stock anymore who really cares.

So, it's been a long process with a lot of $ spent but it's back home and running well. The stock starter is still there and the mechanic recommends a high torque starter for a little easier starting. Anyone have experience with those? I'll also install a Monte Carlo bar at some point and do a Shelby drop.

Now it's time to get it cleaned up a little more and prepare it for the trip back to Colorado for the FCA national meet in a few weeks.

**Luva65wagon** · June 14th, 2019, 09:57 PM

Hey Scott - you gotta post a pic or two for those of us who don't read so well.

The "heavy torque converter" is an odd statement, for sure. Do they know whether it is heavier than the original in weight and if so whether the weight is in the center of the mass or on the edges? Inertial forces vary based on that, not just because it is a few pounds heavier in general. I've not looked into what the chances are of such a thing as this being a possibility, but considering you are going from a 289 to a 331... and both HP and torque are going to be higher, you will probably not consider it slower to accelerate. Sounds like it has a 2400 RPM stall speed, or thereabouts.

My 347 is shipping on Monday, so I will soon be back on the road, but I will not have the ability for it to sit. Hope it is a 2-3 day swap.

**Gitanesteel** · June 15th, 2019, 06:42 AM

Roger- when I was picking up some of the old parts yesterday I asked about the "heavy torque converter" comment. He said what he was referring to was it was stiff. I said I needed a little more explanation. Basically, the stall is too low. It's a Hughes Performance torque converter with a 2000 stall. We both thought that would be good but he said you don't really know until it's in the car and you're driving it. He suggested a little higher stall and then the car will get up from a stop a lot better. It's not that it's bad, it's definitely just a little sluggish. Hit 40-45 mph and jump on the gas and it definitely goes. Going from 50 - 60 mph takes very little time.

Compression is 10.5 to 1 or there about.